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Old 04-10-2019, 06:10 PM   #121
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Any adhesion problems painting over the finish (for the exteriors)?
Why would you be painting over the prefinished stuff? If you're talking about an exposed side piece, It should have an unfinished skin on it. YOu should only paint the frame, and any exposed sides.

Its been a while since I've built any cabinets, but I believe the prefinish is only on one side of the plywood anyway. For cabinets with two sides of shelves, there would be two plywood pieces in the middle to hold the shelves.

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Old 04-10-2019, 09:45 PM   #122
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In my father in lawís cabinet shop they use plywood thatís pre finished on both sides for shelving, drawer boxes, and any interior only panels in the boxes. For the finished ends, they use plywood finished on one side only, the unfinished side facing outward.

The reason for this is its very difficult to get anything to stick to the pre finished material. They use glued on plywood stained to match the rest of the boxes to finish the exposed ends. Wood glue wonít stick to pre finished plywood.*

That said, I have painted pre finished plywood on cabinets with sanding prep and using a bonding primer, or more commonly Breakthrough. Doesnít seem to be a problem.

*this brings up another issue, irrelevant to this thread, with building boxes out of pre finished material. You canít glue the boxes together without dadoing. Some cabinet makers I know still use unfinished plywood so that they can easily glue the boxes together ensuring a strong box. Itís a lot of work to manually finishes the inside of boxes, but apparently some cabinet makers think it worth the trade off to have security glued boxes.


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Old 04-15-2019, 04:22 PM   #123
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Why would you be painting over the prefinished stuff? If you're talking about an exposed side piece, It should have an unfinished skin on it. YOu should only paint the frame, and any exposed sides.

Its been a while since I've built any cabinets, but I believe the prefinish is only on one side of the plywood anyway. For cabinets with two sides of shelves, there would be two plywood pieces in the middle to hold the shelves.
The sides and tops I leave alone. I like to paint the bottoms to match the doors and faceframes. I think it looks more "finished".

It is available finished on one or two sides. I will call the lumber yard and see which style they carry. I would think finished one side would invite warping.
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Old 04-17-2019, 10:47 AM   #124
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I did a search and it directed me back to this thread.

I recently started spraying cabinets with a HVLP sprayer. I need a clear finish for cabinet drawers. The enclosed space makes odors linger for a long time. So I am looking for something that sprays easily and does not smell bad (or the smell goes away quickly).

Quick drying would also be an advantage. I don't think durability is as much of a factor here as it would be for cabinet exteriors.

Any suggestions?

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Old 04-17-2019, 08:02 PM   #125
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Default There isn't a good cabinet paint

Breakthrough clear if you can get it. Iíve used it on a few cabinet refinish jobs and really liked it. It does stink during application, but with the ultra fast dry and 7 day full cure time, the odor seems to dissipate quickly.


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Old 04-17-2019, 11:13 PM   #126
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The sides and tops I leave alone. I like to paint the bottoms to match the doors and faceframes. I think it looks more "finished".

It is available finished on one or two sides. I will call the lumber yard and see which style they carry. I would think finished one side would invite warping.
Warping? Why would you think that?

As far as clears, waterborne poly works great. It dries as quick as a latex paint. I imagine breakthrough would dry a little quicker, though.

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Old 04-19-2019, 09:40 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
In my father in lawís cabinet shop they use plywood thatís pre finished on both sides for shelving, drawer boxes, and any interior only panels in the boxes. For the finished ends, they use plywood finished on one side only, the unfinished side facing outward.

The reason for this is its very difficult to get anything to stick to the pre finished material. They use glued on plywood stained to match the rest of the boxes to finish the exposed ends. Wood glue wonít stick to pre finished plywood.*

That said, I have painted pre finished plywood on cabinets with sanding prep and using a bonding primer, or more commonly Breakthrough. Doesnít seem to be a problem.

*this brings up another issue, irrelevant to this thread, with building boxes out of pre finished material. You canít glue the boxes together without dadoing. Some cabinet makers I know still use unfinished plywood so that they can easily glue the boxes together ensuring a strong box. Itís a lot of work to manually finishes the inside of boxes, but apparently some cabinet makers think it worth the trade off to have security glued boxes.


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Dadoes are not particularly strong in of themselves, especially when testing racking strength. I prefer dowels. I place them every 3" or so. The dowels provide good racking strength and good pull apart strength. Confirmat screws are also good, but then I have a difficult time locating the panels for assembly. The dowels solve that issue.

Dadoes are good for carrying a load if it is used on both ends of the shelf, but offer little racking strength (not an issue on cabinets which use the wall as a structural member). It is a problem with free-standing cabinets.
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:25 PM   #128
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Dadoes are not particularly strong in of themselves, especially when testing racking strength. I prefer dowels. I place them every 3" or so. The dowels provide good racking strength and good pull apart strength. Confirmat screws are also good, but then I have a difficult time locating the panels for assembly. The dowels solve that issue.

Dadoes are good for carrying a load if it is used on both ends of the shelf, but offer little racking strength (not an issue on cabinets which use the wall as a structural member). It is a problem with free-standing cabinets.
If you should ever invest in a sliding table saw for processing sheet goods, you’ll never want to use a dowel ever again. Everything is self-squaring when performing dadoes and rebates on a slider. You can eliminate measuring with lightning fast assembly, and hang up your squares too. I’ve always glued and stapled all dado and rebate assemblies on casework. I don’t see any issues with racking strength.

And yes, I would go with pre-finished. I’ve been out of the cabinet business for a few years now, but if my memory serves me correctly, I used Nova pre-finished for casework.
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:14 PM   #129
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Warping? Why would you think that?
If you finish one side of a piece of wood and not the other, then the unfinished side will absorb moisture at a greater rate than the finished side. So seasonal movement of the wood due to moisture content can cause the wood to warp.
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Old 04-22-2019, 05:00 PM   #130
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If you finish one side of a piece of wood and not the other, then the unfinished side will absorb moisture at a greater rate than the finished side. So seasonal movement of the wood due to moisture content can cause the wood to warp.
Plywood doesnt warp like that. I highly doubt solid boards would either. Open up your dresser, or any cabinet with all drawers. I'll bet its raw wood on the inside.
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Old 04-22-2019, 05:28 PM   #131
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Plywood doesnt warp like that. I highly doubt solid boards would either. Open up your dresser, or any cabinet with all drawers. I'll bet its raw wood on the inside.
Was on a project a few weeks ago, not having done the painting, just the wood finishing. There were sixteen x 7 ft high, 3/4” plywood & edge-banded mirrored cabinet doors to be painted by others. I suggested to the builder to at least have his painters prime the side where the mirror glass was going to be installed so they don’t bow...he didn’t listen, just having his painters do the edges and backs.

Ever been to a fun-house when you were a kid, looking at your reflection in the mirrors? Yeah, they bowed that badly. I’m surprised the glass didn’t snap. Plywood warps if only one side is finished.

Someone’s now eating the cost for replacing 16 plywood doors and mirror glass.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:27 PM   #132
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Wood and plywood most certainly will warp and bow like typical solid lumber. It's definitely more resistant than solid lumber because of the stack of opposing grains but will over time.

Both solid 3/4" tongue and groove hardwood and the newer engineered hardwood floors will cup or crown depending on the humidity differential.

That's when you have it more moisture on one side of the product vs the other.

Most manufacturered stock cabinets have veneer on both sides. Typically only the ends are exposed.

Exposed plywood on stick frame homes, especially the junk today, will bow and check if the new construction isn't made rain tight in short order.

That's why many have gone with advantec vs low grade osb or plywood.






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Plywood doesnt warp like that. I highly doubt solid boards would either. Open up your dresser, or any cabinet with all drawers. I'll bet its raw wood on the inside.
Was on a project a few weeks ago, not having done the painting, just the wood finishing. There were sixteen x 7 ft high, 3/4” plywood & edge-banded mirrored cabinet doors to be painted by others. I suggested to the builder to at least have his painters prime the side where the mirror glass was going to be installed so they don’t bow...he didn’t listen, just having his painters do the edges and backs.

Ever been to a fun-house when you were a kid, looking at your reflection in the mirrors? Yeah, they bowed that badly. I’m surprised the glass didn’t snap. Plywood warps if only one side is finished.

Someone’s now eating the cost for replacing 16 plywood doors and mirror glass.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:04 PM   #133
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Wood and plywood most certainly will warp and bow like typical solid lumber. It's definitely more resistant than solid lumber because of the stack of opposing grains but will over time.

Both solid 3/4" tongue and groove hardwood and the newer engineered hardwood floors will cup or crown depending on the humidity differential.

That's when you have it more moisture on one side of the product vs the other.

Most manufacturered stock cabinets have veneer on both sides. Typically only the ends are exposed.

Exposed plywood on stick frame homes, especially the junk today, will bow and check if the new construction isn't made rain tight in short order.

That's why many have gone with advantec vs low grade osb or plywood.
Having been finishing millwork/cabinetry for upwards 40 years, you learn how to read the wood, knowing exactly what each piece will do when applying a water based product, sometimes having to wet down opposing sides of cabinet doors and drawer fronts with distilled water to prevent bowing when only being able to do one side before flipping. I haven’t encountered a bowed or twisted cabinet door that I couldn’t flatten out by some means, larger stave core passage and entry doors being a different story.

Also having finished a lot of engineered flooring/paneling, I can’t say I’ve ever experienced cupping or crowning with engineered surfaces on any of my projects, our installers doing a very thorough job both gluing and blind fastening. What I do see quite often are the lamellae splitting due to differential movement between the Baltic birch ply backing and the lamellae. We mostly use 11 ply backing which is very stable.

I took delivery of 3000 lf of 3/4 solid genuine mahogany t&g material a few weeks ago, the material being delivered by “others” on a open truck. The material was straight as a arrow before being shipped. Just the airflow on a humid day on the back of a truck for a 40 mile trip caused the boards to crook upwards an inch. I guess the mill didn’t know that you deliver framing lumber on an open truck, not FEQ mahogany..couldn’t fix that mess, the installers had a tough time with it..

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Old 07-19-2019, 10:23 PM   #134
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Guys if you want the real deal with cabinet paints...im talking great products for cabinet paints then you will not get them fromyour box stores, PPG , BM or even a lot of SW stores. SW has KA which is alright but on the lower end of specialty WB products.
SW bought out Sayerlack and Sayerlack is good but hard to get in most SW stores.

But, Sayerlack, Gemini,Campbell,Renner, CIC,Target and many more all blow away what you typically find in a SW, PPG, BM etc. stores. The best products are usually European companies. How about Milesi? That stuff is GREAT!! Its also the best selling WB specialty paint in Europe.

There is a little bit of a learning curve when using these products. If you are coming from a solvent background it will be a bit harder but once you transition....you will never go back to solvents. The products I mentioned look and feel just like a solvent and some cases are even more durable.

Advance, Breakthrough, Emerald Urethane etc... have their place but NOT on kitchen cabinets.

Check out Eric Reason on Youtube. He does a great job of WB product reviews.

Good luck
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Old 07-20-2019, 07:06 AM   #135
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Guys if you want the real deal with cabinet paints...im talking great products for cabinet paints then you will not get them fromyour box stores, PPG , BM or even a lot of SW stores. SW has KA which is alright but on the lower end of specialty WB products.
SW bought out Sayerlack and Sayerlack is good but hard to get in most SW stores.

But, Sayerlack, Gemini,Campbell,Renner, CIC,Target and many more all blow away what you typically find in a SW, PPG, BM etc. stores. The best products are usually European companies. How about Milesi? That stuff is GREAT!! Its also the best selling WB specialty paint in Europe.

There is a little bit of a learning curve when using these products. If you are coming from a solvent background it wrill be a bit harder but once you transition....you will never go back to solvents. The products I mentioned look and feel just like a solvent and some cases are even more durable.

Advance, Breakthrough, Emerald Urethane etc... have their place but NOT on kitchen cabinets.

Check out Eric Reason on Youtube. He does a great job of WB product reviews.

Good luck
Technically you may be right, however I've been using Advance for a few years now with fantastic results. Even the toughest of pigmented products will start showing some wear and tear after a year. I've seen it on cabinets straight from the factory. The laquers etc. will start chipping around the sink area etc.
The awesome think about Advance is for touch-up work. It's blends in really nice and can be brush and rolled with ease. I'm sticking with it for now..
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:33 AM   #136
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Eric Reason did a durability test with Advance if your interested.
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:13 AM   #137
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There are good cabinet paints out there. I think the problem begins when customers (and even some painters) expect non-factory finishes to equal the durability of a quality baked on factory finish. And that just doesn't happen.
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:41 PM   #138
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Eric Reason did a durability test with Advance if your interested.
Yeah i saw that.

I was shocked that Advance was the worst in terms of durability.

I showed a handyman a sample door that I shot with Advance which had cured a few years, and he did the fingernail test and scratched the sh*t out of it. The handyman always clear-coats his cabinet jobs with with poly.

Next cabinet Job I'm going to try Sayerlack.
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:59 AM   #139
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Yeah i saw that.

I was shocked that Advance was the worst in terms of durability.

I showed a handyman a sample door that I shot with Advance which had cured a few years, and he did the fingernail test and scratched the sh*t out of it. The handyman always clear-coats his cabinet jobs with with poly.

Next cabinet Job I'm going to try Sayerlack.
Wow....
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:27 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Mace View Post
Guys if you want the real deal with cabinet paints...im talking great products for cabinet paints then you will not get them fromyour box stores, PPG , BM or even a lot of SW stores. SW has KA which is alright but on the lower end of specialty WB products.
SW bought out Sayerlack and Sayerlack is good but hard to get in most SW stores.

But, Sayerlack, Gemini,Campbell,Renner, CIC,Target and many more all blow away what you typically find in a SW, PPG, BM etc. stores. The best products are usually European companies. How about Milesi? That stuff is GREAT!! Its also the best selling WB specialty paint in Europe.

There is a little bit of a learning curve when using these products. If you are coming from a solvent background it will be a bit harder but once you transition....you will never go back to solvents. The products I mentioned look and feel just like a solvent and some cases are even more durable.

Advance, Breakthrough, Emerald Urethane etc... have their place but NOT on kitchen cabinets.

Check out Eric Reason on Youtube. He does a great job of WB product reviews.

Good luck
Do those products spray well with an airless?
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