Advice for oak grain and Titan question

494 Views 19 Replies 7 Participants Last post by FlawlessFinishRenos, 18 d ago

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · 25 d ago

I've been doing kitchen cabinets non stop for 3 years. My current process is
Clean with krud Kotter followed by tsp.
Hang doors on hangers cut with a cnc machine I built.
Spray Stix with a Titan controlmax using a 311 tip.
First couple of questions.
I would love to be able to hook a short hose whip to the Titan as I sure don't need 25' to spray cabinets with and the stiff Titan hea hose is a pain. It seems the control max uses a different thread than regular airless sprayers so I'm having trouble finding a whip that hooks up to that machine. I'm Canadian so a Canadian company or Amazon would be great.
I've never blown a tip seal but late last night my gun was dripping like crazy Un usable. I tried pushing it out with the tip I had to use a hammer and the tip came apart in pieces before I could remove the seal. I got it back together, but it still dripped. This machine and seal are only 4 months old. This was the seal straight when I purchased the gun. I had to buy a Graco tip and guard today to finish a job. I don't like the Graco tips as much as the Wagner tips. I could only find Graco locally today. Any one else have an issue like this? I've sprayed 1000's of gallons thru titan and Graco machines and never blown a seal.

So back to my process.
After the Stix I put the door on a light table and fix any damage with Dex or any major holes I use glazing putty followed by aerosol Bin.
Another question is oak doors I sometimes get customers that want complete grain removal after trying cabinet coat and other fillers I switched to Dex and watered down Dex which require too many coats so the last couple I've just used glazing putty over the doors. Any other cost effective ideas?
I use Command paint for the first coat.
Final coat is sprayed flat as I just can't seem to get as much paint on when they are hung which is a pain as my shop only has enough space to hang 10 doors then I wait an hour and re hang.

I'm always looking to be better and would take any advice on threads pertaining to spraying cabinets.

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Knobbe

· #2 · 22 d ago

FlawlessFinishRenos said:
I've been doing kitchen cabinets non stop for 3 years. My current process is
Clean with krud Kotter followed by tsp.
Hang doors on hangers cut with a cnc machine I built.
Spray Stix with a Titan controlmax using a 311 tip.
First couple of questions.
I would love to be able to hook a short hose whip to the Titan as I sure don't need 25' to spray cabinets with and the stiff Titan hea hose is a pain. It seems the control max uses a different thread than regular airless sprayers so I'm having trouble finding a whip that hooks up to that machine. I'm Canadian so a Canadian company or Amazon would be great.
I've never blown a tip seal but late last night my gun was dripping like crazy Un usable. I tried pushing it out with the tip I had to use a hammer and the tip came apart in pieces before I could remove the seal. I got it back together, but it still dripped. This machine and seal are only 4 months old. This was the seal straight when I purchased the gun. I had to buy a Graco tip and guard today to finish a job. I don't like the Graco tips as much as the Wagner tips. I could only find Graco locally today. Any one else have an issue like this? I've sprayed 1000's of gallons thru titan and Graco machines and never blown a seal.

So back to my process.
After the Stix I put the door on a light table and fix any damage with Dex or any major holes I use glazing putty followed by aerosol Bin.
Another question is oak doors I sometimes get customers that want complete grain removal after trying cabinet coat and other fillers I switched to Dex and watered down Dex which require too many coats so the last couple I've just used glazing putty over the doors. Any other cost effective ideas?
I use Command paint for the first coat.
Final coat is sprayed flat as I just can't seem to get as much paint on when they are hung which is a pain as my shop only has enough space to hang 10 doors then I wait an hour and re hang.

I'm always looking to be better and would take any advice on threads pertaining to spraying cabinets.

This is what I have found about grain filling: it can be a fools errand. I've used Aqua Coat in the past but it's time consuming and oak end grain can be a bear. My best outcome is 1 coat Aqua Coat, 1 BIN, 2 Smart Prime, 2 top coat. I only do this on oak. The results leave a slight visible grain but it's very natural looking.

Reactions: 2

Knobbe

· #3 · 22 d ago

Knobbe said:
This is what I have found about grain filling: it can be a fools errand. I've used Aqua Coat in the past but it's time consuming and oak end grain can be a bear. My best outcome is 1 coat Aqua Coat, 1 BIN, 2 Smart Prime, 2 top coat. I only do this on oak. The results leave a slight visible grain but it's very natural looking.

Reactions: 1

Knobbe

· #4 · 22 d ago

Here is an example.

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Susan

· #5 · 22 d ago

FPE Swedish putty for grain filling

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FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #6 · 20 d ago

Susan said:
FPE Swedish putty for grain filling

Never heard of it I'll take a look see if it's available to me.

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #7 · 20 d ago

Knobbe said:
Here is an example.

Yea that looks like the typical result I get. Once in a while I'll have a customer who wants 100% grain removal. Only thing I've found that really works is bonds. I'm not interested in doing 6 coats if I don't have to.

fromthenorthwest

· #8 · 20 d ago

I'm with Knobbe, hard to get total grain fill. I usually tell that to the clients in the outset to set their expectations accordingly.

Having said that, rather than grain filling I'd probably do two maybe three prime coats, with a heavy sand after the first prime, back to mostly bare wood. Some of the newer 1K and 2K products have pretty good filling properties. Since you're in Canada you might be able to get Envirolak. I would try their TB 170 primer for this.

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #9 · 20 d ago

fromthenorthwest said:
I'm with Knobbe, hard to get total grain fill. I usually tell that to the clients in the outset to set their expectations accordingly.

Having said that, rather than grain filling I'd probably do two maybe three prime coats, with a heavy sand after the first prime, back to mostly bare wood. Some of the newer 1K and 2K products have pretty good filling properties. Since you're in Canada you might be able to get Envirolak. I would try their TB 170 primer for this.

Yes I inform my customers at the offset during the quote.

It's not an easy task removing the grain. I've spent hours trying different things.

It doesn't seem like there is a product out there that us going to do what I'm looking for it seems.

I think I'm going to stick with my current method. Super thin flick prime. Light table and bondo. A good prime and 2 coats of Command. For me this eliminates 99% of the grain.

I charge almost double for this as it's so labour's intensive. I spend more time per face doing this than all other aspects of doing doors.

Reactions: 2

finishesbykevyn

· #10 · 20 d ago

FlawlessFinishRenos said:
Yes I inform my customers at the offset during the quote.

It's not an easy task removing the grain. I've spent hours trying different things.

It doesn't seem like there is a product out there that us going to do what I'm looking for it seems.

I think I'm going to stick with my current method. Super thin flick prime. Light table and bondo. A good prime and 2 coats of Command. For me this eliminates 99% of the grain.

I charge almost double for this as it's so labour's intensive. I spend more time per face doing this than all other aspects of doing doors.

Another option is to just order new doors. We have a couple places around that will make up new doors for about $17-$21/sq.ft I believe. So like $50-$100 per door. Or heck, do them on your cnc machine. 🤷‍♀️

Reactions: 2

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #11 · 20 d ago

finishesbykevyn said:
Another option is to just order new doors. We have a couple places around that will make up new doors for about $17-$21/sq.ft I believe. So like $50-$100 per door. Or heck, do them on your cnc machine. 🤷‍♀️

Yea my cnc is currently only 2x2 I can easily make it bigger I'm just stuck for space in my house. The smell of mdf being milled is horrible as well I can't stand it.

From a business aspect it makes more sense in charging for it since it's cheap for me to do, its just labour intensive.

I've found being a painter that you have to be able to do tedious work all day. I don't do much interior painting anymore unless it's a kitchen after I've done other work to make a quick buck. I don't like painting with a brush and roller at all. Give me a gun and I'm grinning all day long.

Reactions: 1

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #12 · 20 d ago

Purple Wood Machine Art Metal

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stelzerpaintinginc.

· #13 · 19 d ago

Lots of great threads here about spray setups, spray racks, so you might have a look at our archives for any which might suit your needs.
Any length of hose smaller than 25' can lead to inconsistent pressures, especially on a pump like yours.
Plenty of threads here regarding grain filling products and processes, so hopefully you find some useful info for that as well.

When you can, please post a pic of the door hangers you made. Sounds like a cool idea.

Reactions: 1

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #14 · 19 d ago (Edited)

2

stelzerpaintinginc. said:
Lots of great threads here about spray setups, spray racks, so you might have a look at our archives for any which might suit your needs.
Any length of hose smaller than 25' can lead to inconsistent pressures, especially on a pump like yours.
Plenty of threads here regarding grain filling products and processes, so hopefully you find some useful info for that as well.

When you can, please post a pic of the door hangers you made. Sounds like a cool idea.

I wasn't aware of issues with shorter hose lengths. I was really contemplating ordering 2 hose whips and a swivel connector and just using that with the proper adapter. That's too bad.

Wood Font Road surface Symbol Pattern

Wood Gas Engineering Hardwood Machine

Originally I had a piece of wire between the two cup hooks but found if I put the hooks into the holes and twisted the hooks away from each other I get almost 0 sway.

I hate wastage so I cut the hangers from old laminate. Mdf is so nasty when it's beening milled. I have a svg file of it if anyone wants it.

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Susan

· #15 · 18 d ago

Could you further explain your hanging method? I like it. I've never seen something to offset the hanging like that and I'm curious.
Also a ControlMax appears to be an electric airless sprayer. Not certain on the specifics, but a machine twice the price or more would likely eliminate your pulsating issues. AAA I like for cabinets, personally.
I hope you're not shooting lacquer with that thing, but if you are, kudos. And maybe keep a 55'gal of open water nearby to submerge that machine when it lights on fire.
Or maybe Titan ControlMax are built different in Canada? Clue me in. No jab, we're all here to learn something.

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #16 · 18 d ago

2

Susan said:
Could you further explain your hanging method? I like it. I've never seen something to offset the hanging like that and I'm curious.
Also a ControlMax appears to be an electric airless sprayer. Not certain on the specifics, but a machine twice the price or more would likely eliminate your pulsating issues. AAA I like for cabinets, personally.
I hope you're not shooting lacquer with that thing, but if you are, kudos. And maybe keep a 55'gal of open water nearby to submerge that machine when it lights on fire.
Or maybe Titan ControlMax are built different in Canada? Clue me in. No jab, we're all here to learn something.

Wood Surveillance camera Fixture Gas Metal

One hook going one direction and the other the opposite. Once I have the hangers on the hooks I twist the hooks outwards this allows the hangers to sit straight up.

I spray them on a holder like this.

Wood Composite material Gas Household supply Tints and shades

Not shown in the pic is an arm I use to twist the door around with.

I've used the ControlMax for almost 3years now without issues til I had to switch to a graco tip due to supply issues.

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stelzerpaintinginc.

· #17 · 18 d ago

FlawlessFinishRenos said:
I wasn't aware of issues with shorter hose lengths. I was really contemplating ordering 2 hose whips and a swivel connector and just using that with the proper adapter. That's too bad. View attachment 115504
View attachment 115505

Originally I had a piece of wire between the two cup hooks but found if I put the hooks into the holes and twisted the hooks away from each other I get almost 0 sway.

I hate wastage so I cut the hangers from old laminate. Mdf is so nasty when it's beening milled. I have a svg file of it if anyone wants it.

I'm assuming you have the hooks driven in the bottom of the lower doors and the top of upper doors, ya?

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #18 · 18 d ago

stelzerpaintinginc. said:
I'm assuming you have the hooks driven in the bottom of the lower doors and the top of upper doors, ya?

Absolutely

Redux

· #19 · 18 d ago

Rather than grain filling oak, I’ve wire brushed oak to further open up the grain and primed with thinned out alkyd primer tinted to the finish color followed by accenting the grain with a glaze which provided a subtle cerused look then clear coated.

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FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #20 · 18 d ago

Redux said:
Rather than grain filling oak, I’ve wire brushed oak to further open up the grain and primed with thinned out alkyd primer tinted to the finish color followed by accenting the grain with a glaze which provided a subtle cerused look then clear coated.

View attachment 115508

Yea that looks really nice.

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