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If you want an more authentic finish you would want to hand-paint (not spray) with a brush using an oil based enamel.

All oils yellow.

Edit: Sounds like you should stick with water-based clean up. The Hybrid waterborne tend to yellow less, and look similar.
I used Cabinet Coat (satin) recently on an historic renovation, and it had a very similar look and feel to oil enamel, although it is much shinier than a true satin (imo). Very easy to work with.

SW Acrylic Alkyd is also very similar look and feel to oil enamels (it is an emulsified Alkyd), so when it dries it is essentially an oil paint. The satin in this product is more in line with a true satin.

Whites tend to wear better in Satin sheen (collect less grime) than Flats if they are in traffic areas.
Thats a good point regarding movement and yellowing. The newer urethanes from centurions, I would assume enviorlak are similar, really do have the look and feel of solvent finishes unlike cabinet coat which does have a higher sheen than what I would traditionally call a satin. As far as VOCs and toxicity you can use them as a 1K system and they have some great 1K water based primers that don't fuzz up MDF.

In the BM product line the lenmar 1wb.200 undercoater and cabinet coat would be the closest equivalent
 

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Looks like he's already painted the walls and some other parts (assuming a latex was used).
 

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For something more matte, there's always Advance Matte, but I never tried it. My old boss said he tried it once and it was all right, on cabinets oddly enough.
 

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I'm not sure why people are recommending oil paint? I can barely even find oil paint anymore, not to mention there are so many water based options available. 🤷‍♂️
An airless is your best bet with a regular latex paint. If you go hvlp its going to take waaay longer and you'll have to thin your paint like crazy, unless you switch to more of a shop specific water paint like ML Cambell or Lenmar etc..
 

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For something more matte, there's always Advance Matte, but I never tried it. My old boss said he tried it once and it was all right, on cabinets oddly enough.
Interesting enough, I have 2 Gals of Advance Matte at my shop that I've never used. I imagine with the long dry time that it would be a dream to work with for interior walls?? Aka, no flashing?👀 Wouldn't trust it on Cabs without a clear though.
 

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I dont think anyone is recommending oil paint. However, the DIYer did ask for a paint that would be similar to what might've been used in the 1800's, even though half of the wood has already been primed with 123 and painted with Valspar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Walls were all skim coated and re-primed to get rid of the previous owners thick roller nap. Walls are drywall and had many nail pops all fixed. The pot lights on the edge of the room show every imperfection so I tried my best to do level 5 finish. Walls are primed with 123 and rolled with a very fine nap on bottom panels. Any wood trim that is white is pre-primed MDF or poplar from the factory. Only one pillar beside the bay window is primed to see what it would look like white and if it needed changes to the look. Im not looking for furniture finish or super smooth cabinet finish. Bright white, not shiny, no runs in the paint. I just figured bushing & rolling all of this 3 times would be hell and hoping spaying is faster.

Narrowing down my options here
Plant Tree Road surface Urban design Font



Im thinking oil primer that dries fast and sands well.
There are 100 flutes cut 1/2 deep in the MDF. This basically these fluts are end grain MDF now. Im sure the wood (ahem...paper) fibers are going to stand up and suck up paint like crazy so easy sanding of these is a must.
Then need to pick a water based cleanup top coat. 2 coats. No oil, no cracking and no yellowing
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
If I was to sub out this job, I buy pizza and beer, without material cost included and job was paint ready how many hours/days labor are we looking at?
Day 1 - spray primer, clean machine 3-5 hrs?
Day 2 - sand and touch up holes - I can do this
Day 3 - 2 finish coats - 8 hrs on site?
 

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Your carpentry work looks phenomenal!

I think you should hire this out to someone who is highly skilled at spraying.

This is not the type of project that you want to learn on.

Heck I've been professionally painting for 18 years and have sprayed countless houses and even I'd be nervous to spray yours.

It takes quite a bit of skill to spray all of the different angles properly.

I agree with the others. 517 way too big. Id use something in the 312 range. I'd use oil based primer probably killz as it sands well and is cheap, and an oil topcoat such as satin impervo or proclassic oil. Yellowing typically is an issue if the painted surface doesnt see daylight. This assumes you will not be staying in the house for a few days. Otherwise I'd use one of the hybrids as were suggested.


Definitely follow up with progress pics!
 

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Walls were all skim coated and re-primed to get rid of the previous owners thick roller nap. Walls are drywall and had many nail pops all fixed. The pot lights on the edge of the room show every imperfection so I tried my best to do level 5 finish. Walls are primed with 123 and rolled with a very fine nap on bottom panels. Any wood trim that is white is pre-primed MDF or poplar from the factory. Only one pillar beside the bay window is primed to see what it would look like white and if it needed changes to the look. Im not looking for furniture finish or super smooth cabinet finish. Bright white, not shiny, no runs in the paint. I just figured bushing & rolling all of this 3 times would be hell and hoping spaying is faster.

Narrowing down my options here



Im thinking oil primer that dries fast and sands well.
There are 100 flutes cut 1/2 deep in the MDF. This basically these fluts are end grain MDF now. Im sure the wood (ahem...paper) fibers are going to stand up and suck up paint like crazy so easy sanding of these is a must.
Then need to pick a water based cleanup top coat. 2 coats. No oil, no cracking and no yellowing
tip size is directly related to the material chosen. enviorlak and other european quality urethanes spray great with a 306-308. They also make water based primers that do not swell mdf and sand to a powder.
 

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Walls were all skim coated and re-primed to get rid of the previous owners thick roller nap. Walls are drywall and had many nail pops all fixed. The pot lights on the edge of the room show every imperfection so I tried my best to do level 5 finish. Walls are primed with 123 and rolled with a very fine nap on bottom panels. Any wood trim that is white is pre-primed MDF or poplar from the factory. Only one pillar beside the bay window is primed to see what it would look like white and if it needed changes to the look. Im not looking for furniture finish or super smooth cabinet finish. Bright white, not shiny, no runs in the paint. I just figured bushing & rolling all of this 3 times would be hell and hoping spaying is faster.

Narrowing down my options here
View attachment 113292


Im thinking oil primer that dries fast and sands well.
There are 100 flutes cut 1/2 deep in the MDF. This basically these fluts are end grain MDF now. Im sure the wood (ahem...paper) fibers are going to stand up and suck up paint like crazy so easy sanding of these is a must.
Then need to pick a water based cleanup top coat. 2 coats. No oil, no cracking and no yellowing
I did this job a couple years back. 2 coats BM latex Freshstart primer. 2 coats BM ScuffX Satin Sheen. All sprayed with Graco 490 airless, 308fflp tip. Was not easy, but turned out really nice.
 

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I dont think anyone is recommending oil paint. However, the DIYer did ask for a paint that would be similar to what might've been used in the 1800's, even though half of the wood has already been primed with 123 and painted with Valspar.
In retrospect, I am not even sure what that would mean. I would say to just use the best product that would hit the most bases regarding ease to apply, provides the right sheen, and which is going to be durable. I can’t believe ANYONE will ever come in and criticize the paint job based on it’s lack of an authentic look of lead loaded paint from the 1800’s. And if they did, well…🖕
And I agree with Kevyn that going with an HVLP will be a nightmare due to it’s slowness and the need to reduce paint to get a decent flow. With the right setup on an airless, you can kick ass while still having a decent amount of control over your product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
Yup -> Best product that would hit the most bases regarding ease to apply (for me), provides the right sheen, and which is going to be durable.

Regarding 1800's, its the small details that you feel when you enter the room. Warm, Classic

This is authentic 1800's trim near my home. Notice its not shinny and plastic looking. No Semi gloss here.
Wood Creative arts Building Art Curtain




finishesbykevyn picture above looks perfect to me.... BM ScuffX Satin Sheen

Once done parts of my home will look similar to below. This is the look and feel. Perhaps this is a Pearl or Eggshell and not Satin?

Property Stairs Hall Building Wood
 

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Yup -> Best product that would hit the most bases regarding ease to apply (for me), provides the right sheen, and which is going to be durable.

Regarding 1800's, its the small details that you feel when you enter the room. Warm, Classic

This is authentic 1800's trim near my home. Notice its not shinny and plastic looking. No Semi gloss here.
View attachment 113298



finishesbykevyn picture above looks perfect to me.... BM ScuffX Satin Sheen

Once done parts of my home will look similar to below. This is the look and feel. Perhaps this is a Pearl or Eggshell and not Satin?

View attachment 113299
Any sheen name is ultimately only a name, in that in the TDS for most paints you get the true sheen with units of gloss tested by some sort of meter at certain degrees. So there's "satins" shinier than semi-gloss, eggshells shinier than another's satin, etc.


Those are TDSes for Regal Pearl and Advance Satin, Advance Satin is 25-35 and Regal Pearl is 15-25 @ 60 degrees, but it gets confusing as some companies measure at 80 degrees, some companies measure at both, etc.

Interestingly the Behr urethane alkyd satin measures 15-25 @ 60.

However, a true "matte" measures less, Advance matte measures 2-6 @ 60.

Personally I think satin trim and matte walls would work. In my opinion it's always best to go about one step up from the sheen your walls are, so if you go matte on the walls then satin is appropriate for trim, but if you go eggshell or satin on walls, then it's better to use semi-gloss on trim so the trim "pops" and you have a sort of 3D look.

Oh, for the first moulding picture, I'm not entirely sure on this but it's quite possible the moulding was never ever painted. A lot of old mouldings are literal mouldings, as in, molded from plaster, so it might just be raw plaster perhaps with a bit of tint in it. It's sort of smarter as it keeps it maintenance free compared to paint. So in your case you'll likely never replicate it totally with paint. Of some note, too, you can do the same with walls, you can tint your finish coat of plaster to whatever color you want, but it won't look like paint, but it makes it maintenance free.
 

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In retrospect, I am not even sure what that would mean. I would say to just use the best product that would hit the most bases regarding ease to apply, provides the right sheen, and which is going to be durable. I can’t believe ANYONE will ever come in and criticize the paint job based on it’s lack of an authentic look of lead loaded paint from the 1800’s. And if they did, well…🖕
And I agree with Kevyn that going with an HVLP will be a nightmare due to it’s slowness and the need to reduce paint to get a decent flow. With the right setup on an airless, you can kick ass while still having a decent amount of control over your product.
It sounds like a "sheen" thing, I also do not know what it means. Thise details were originally plaster, so maybe it was fresco?

Someone who has never spray painted before might do better with the (notably) slower HVLP. I might even prefer it up in all those corners. It's likely to blast the person in the face with overspray and bounce back either way. The Tech at Graco said Urethanes spray well with 5 stage turbine with a #6 tip, at a 6 setting, did not need to be reduced.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I decided I will buy new paint and primer based on the feed back above. After doing more research I decided on;
Primer - BM Lemar DuraLAQ 1WB.200
Paint - BM Ultra Spec Scuff-X Matte (Proprietary Acrylic Copolymer) Spray tip size 0.015 — 0.017

Based on this am I crazy still?
Use a 310 FF tip? Or a 311, 312, 412, 413? Thoughts based on this paint


For primer/undercoater I will use BM Lenmar DuraLaq 1WB.200. Will do 2-3 coats as needed 220 sanding in between - and reason for choice;
  • Water cleanup (however the TDS states Isopropyl alcohol or a blend of water and butyl cellosolve).
  • Product purpose is designed for this type of project. New millwork, raw wood, and sealer for fuzzy poplar and MDF.
  • No need to seal knots, old paint, smoke, stains and problem surfaces like high gloss, oil, tile, steel, no oak or pine tannins or sap to worry about.
  • Cheaper then other primers ($100 for 5gal)
  • Sands to powder (easy sanding the end grain MDF)
  • Dries fast
  • Designed for Spay only (what Im doing)
  • Was told its is a waterbased product that is compatible with raw MDF
Concerns
  • TDS states it requires spray equipment to be all stainless steel. Not sure if this matters in my DIY cheap Airless sprayer for the one job?
  • No Tip size mentioned. Will start with 310 FF tip is guess

Top coat BM Ultra Spec SCUFF-X MATTE Will do 2 coats. 220 sanding in between if required - and reason for choice;
  • Many professionals are commenting and switching to Scuff-X from other products because it works too well
  • Reasonable dry time 1hr (touch) Recoat 2-3hr.
  • Sets up faster then BM Advance (4-6hrs). In theory Advance could allow more time for paint to flow and cause sags on vertical surfaces due to too much paint applied by inexperienced painter.
  • Additional paint can be brushed on trim in other areas where spraying is not practical and touch ups. (BM Corotech Command & PPG Breakthrough dry too fast for this)
  • ScuffX Matte is an odd sheen category due to is scuff-resistance formula. Good compromise to use on millwork, walls and ceilings. One paint one cleanup.
  • Superior durability, washable, my millwork and pillars will get dirty from people and pets touching them since they are in high traffic areas.
  • One paint for coffered ceiling, pillars and trim, Will stand up well for bay window seat.
  • Was told its harder than BM INSL-X Cabinet coat.
  • A bit cheaper than a few other options
  • Water cleanup
  • None yellowing like oils
Other paints considered but not chosen
  • BM Advance great option be not accessible due to product shortage and cannot get it, has longer dry times others switching to ScuffX.
  • BM INSL-X Cabinet coat is a good option but was told by several tradesmen Scuff-X is harder and better for my project
  • Super Kote 5000 good option also but discontinued
  • Behr's Urethane Alkyd should be ok. Not a lot of people like Behr or seem not to recommend this. So going to pass this time around
  • BM Corotech Command. Seems good option also (like Breakthrough) but..More $, Dries too fast for brushing, satin is a bit too glossy. Was told ScuffX is better for my use case
  • PPG Breakthrough. Good option. V50 has issue with figure oils, V52 fixed this...But most $ of options, dries fast for brushing. Will pass
  • SW Emerald Urethane might be good option. But not sold based on my research.
  • Satin Impervo sounds amazing but solvent based spraying :confused: and yellows over time. Might be brittle and my trim has 1000's joints
  • Envirolak - never looked at this. I want to pick up the paint at a shop beside my house...incase I need another can or so.
 

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I decided I will buy new paint and primer based on the feed back above. After doing more research I decided on;
Primer - BM Lemar DuraLAQ 1WB.200
Paint - BM Ultra Spec Scuff-X Matte (Proprietary Acrylic Copolymer) Spray tip size 0.015 — 0.017

Based on this am I crazy still?
Use a 310 FF tip? Or a 311, 312, 412, 413? Thoughts based on this paint


For primer/undercoater I will use BM Lenmar DuraLaq 1WB.200. Will do 2-3 coats as needed 220 sanding in between - and reason for choice;
  • Water cleanup (however the TDS states Isopropyl alcohol or a blend of water and butyl cellosolve).
  • Product purpose is designed for this type of project. New millwork, raw wood, and sealer for fuzzy poplar and MDF.
  • No need to seal knots, old paint, smoke, stains and problem surfaces like high gloss, oil, tile, steel, no oak or pine tannins or sap to worry about.
  • Cheaper then other primers ($100 for 5gal)
  • Sands to powder (easy sanding the end grain MDF)
  • Dries fast
  • Designed for Spay only (what Im doing)
  • Was told its is a waterbased product that is compatible with raw MDF
Concerns
  • TDS states it requires spray equipment to be all stainless steel. Not sure if this matters in my DIY cheap Airless sprayer for the one job?
  • No Tip size mentioned. Will start with 310 FF tip is guess

Top coat BM Ultra Spec SCUFF-X MATTE Will do 2 coats. 220 sanding in between if required - and reason for choice;
  • Many professionals are commenting and switching to Scuff-X from other products because it works too well
  • Reasonable dry time 1hr (touch) Recoat 2-3hr.
  • Sets up faster then BM Advance (4-6hrs). In theory Advance could allow more time for paint to flow and cause sags on vertical surfaces due to too much paint applied by inexperienced painter.
  • Additional paint can be brushed on trim in other areas where spraying is not practical and touch ups. (BM Corotech Command & PPG Breakthrough dry too fast for this)
  • ScuffX Matte is an odd sheen category due to is scuff-resistance formula. Good compromise to use on millwork, walls and ceilings. One paint one cleanup.
  • Superior durability, washable, my millwork and pillars will get dirty from people and pets touching them since they are in high traffic areas.
  • One paint for coffered ceiling, pillars and trim, Will stand up well for bay window seat.
  • Was told its harder than BM INSL-X Cabinet coat.
  • A bit cheaper than a few other options
  • Water cleanup
  • None yellowing like oils
Other paints considered but not chosen
  • BM Advance great option be not accessible due to product shortage and cannot get it, has longer dry times others switching to ScuffX.
  • BM INSL-X Cabinet coat is a good option but was told by several tradesmen Scuff-X is harder and better for my project
  • Super Kote 5000 good option also but discontinued
  • Behr's Urethane Alkyd should be ok. Not a lot of people like Behr or seem not to recommend this. So going to pass this time around
  • BM Corotech Command. Seems good option also (like Breakthrough) but..More $, Dries too fast for brushing, satin is a bit too glossy. Was told ScuffX is better for my use case
  • PPG Breakthrough. Good option. V50 has issue with figure oils, V52 fixed this...But most $ of options, dries fast for brushing. Will pass
  • SW Emerald Urethane might be good option. But not sold based on my research.
  • Satin Impervo sounds amazing but solvent based spraying :confused: and yellows over time. Might be brittle and my trim has 1000's joints
  • Envirolak - never looked at this. I want to pick up the paint at a shop beside my house...incase I need another can or so.
I like your well thought out plan. Although, I personally would go eggshell on the finish for a touch more durability. And yes 310fflp.
 

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- BM Lemar DuraLAQ 1WB.200
Paint - BM Ultra Spec Scuff-X Matte (Proprietary Acrylic Copolymer) Spray tip size 0.015 — 0.017
Great choices for the primer and finish! That primer sands so nicely. Its extremely runny so do very quick passes. Its good practice to do two light coats back to back with duralaq. I would recommend 308 tip for this(for both products). Especially for someone who isnt a seasoned sprayer. For all the flat surfaces use a machine to speed up the sanding and details will need to be done by hand (sponges work great)

Day 1 - spray primer, clean machine 3-5 hrs?
Day 2 - sand and touch up holes - I can do this
Day 3 - 2 finish coats - 8 hrs on site?
Spray time seems pretty accurate but If you think you will be able to sand all those details in 1 day you are in a world of surprise. A fast and experienced prep guy would take 2-3 days easy.
My biggest recommendation is to sand between the two finish coats of scuff x. You will have overspray/rough patches in many places. If you do not do a thorough sanding untill every square inch feel buttery smooth IT IS GOING to show up on the finish.

The chances that this spray job done by a novice is going to look acceptable is very low.

Learn from each coat of spraying to improve on the next one. Its very likely you will need to sand the second finish coat lightly and do a third final one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Thanks Alex541 and finishesbykevyn,

Im now thinking of buying flat paint just for use on the coffered ceiling based on a recommendation of another painter verses ScuffX on ceiling. Using flat ceiling paint will help hide any imperfections and it does not need ScuffX anyway. Spray that first and then do the columns, pedestals, paneling and all remaining trim in ScuffX matte.

Is the ScuffX matte dull enough for a ceiling? Thoughts? Was planning on buy a 5 gallon bucket of ScuffX for everything,

What flat ceiling paint would you recommend for spaying? Buying my paint at BM

Oh and yes I completely wrote down the wrong amount time to sand and prep earlier. When I build the 12 coffered panels on the ground (upside down) I sanded and caulked in the entire unit in every direction even though the crown was tight using a 10mm syringe with a 18 gauge needle full of DAP. Ultra crisp lines and no caulking really visible. This was to hide the fine gaps that would look like crap later. Too hard to work with your hands over your head for hours. Each panel is has 60 feet of caulking inside of it. My guess is it collectively took over 40 hours just to fill pin nails, sand and caulk the ceiling.

Im getting a quote. If his estimate is too many mortgage payments ;) I will try spraying the primer first. I that is a disaster I will sand out my mess for days and higher a pro to do the top coats.


Loose panel being built and areas caulked
Wood Rectangle Composite material Flooring Hardwood
 
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