Professional Painting Contractors Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've painted cabinets in the past before, and they always came out acceptable, but I want to replicate an almost car-like finish. I want them to look impeccable, reflecting the outside world like a mirror. Every rep I spoke to always recommends BM Advance and SW Enamel Urethane, which are good products, but they don't produce a glassy, almost blinding finish that I see other painters attain.

I only have experience spraying water-based paints and don't really want to run oil through my sprayers.

Is there any water-based product that potentially compares to an oil-like, lacquer finish?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Waterbourne lacquer, but that might not spray too well out of an airless.

Probably the glossiest "Gloss" or "High Gloss" I used was the old Muralo Ultra, which to my eye testing on two scrap pieces of trim just by brush leveled as well and was almost exactly as glossy as gloss white Rustoleum, if not moreso. However, Muralo is out of business and the California Ultra imo isn't a match, and there's no high gloss version anymore either.

I have very little personal experience spraying, but I think the issue with trying to get a "carlike" finish out of house paints might be less the actual paint itself, but more the sprayer, I'm not sure an airless can really atomize paint the same way an HVLP style gun can using compressed air. People spray stuff like Advance out of HVLPs and get it really nice looking, sometimes with some thinning, but if you just ran out of it an airless you'd get way more orange peel, etc. Some people are very good at using an airless, and have the right tip setup, etc, etc, but you might need to go HVLP to get a carlike finish. Also too, in automotive as far as the primer goes you're generally wetsanding to at least 400-500 grit before any paint gets on it, so how smooth it ends up is largely dependent on that and less the actual top coat, too.

You can still make something very glossy without necessarily spending the labor in prep, which a lot of new cars do now, they have glossy finishes but often tons of orange peel.

Automotive tail & brake light Automotive lighting Car Motor vehicle Hood


Brand new BMWs are coming with that much orange peel from the factory now, but they're so glossy you don't notice it until you're up close.

To get stuff to be "show car' ready it's a big process of cutting, buffing, etc, usually with wetsanding starting at 1000 grit, going to 3000 grit, then rubbing compounds and waxes.

[/URL]
Car Land vehicle Vehicle Automotive parking light Vehicle registration plate


Automotive parking light Land vehicle Vehicle Automotive lighting Motor vehicle



That car was painted with Rustoleum applied with a foam roller, 5-6 thin coats with the paint thinned down to milk consistency. But he got it to looking "show car" nice by just spending massive amounts of time wetsanding and cutting and buffing it.

I don't really know how FPE and all that works for house trim, same with lacquered drywall, etc, but I'm assuming it's a similar crazy laborious practice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Fine Paints of Europe hollandlac is the highest sheen on the market. Keep in mind obtaining a mirror finish in any product requires maybe 5x the labor. If you're not set up with festool, dust extractors, or don't want to charge that much for labor than stick to a satin sheen
I was looking at their paints a week ago, and it is by far the most impressive paint I have ever seen, and just yesterday I bought a Festool rts 400 and the vacuum! But the fine paints of Europe seems very difficult and labor intensive like you mentioned, and I’m a bit afraid to screw it up and waste the money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Waterbourne lacquer, but that might not spray too well out of an airless.

Probably the glossiest "Gloss" or "High Gloss" I used was the old Muralo Ultra, which to my eye testing on two scrap pieces of trim just by brush leveled as well and was almost exactly as glossy as gloss white Rustoleum, if not moreso. However, Muralo is out of business and the California Ultra imo isn't a match, and there's no high gloss version anymore either.

I have very little personal experience spraying, but I think the issue with trying to get a "carlike" finish out of house paints might be less the actual paint itself, but more the sprayer, I'm not sure an airless can really atomize paint the same way an HVLP style gun can using compressed air. People spray stuff like Advance out of HVLPs and get it really nice looking, sometimes with some thinning, but if you just ran out of it an airless you'd get way more orange peel, etc. Some people are very good at using an airless, and have the right tip setup, etc, etc, but you might need to go HVLP to get a carlike finish. Also too, in automotive as far as the primer goes you're generally wetsanding to at least 400-500 grit before any paint gets on it, so how smooth it ends up is largely dependent on that and less the actual top coat, too.

You can still make something very glossy without necessarily spending the labor in prep, which a lot of new cars do now, they have glossy finishes but often tons of orange peel.

View attachment 114337

Brand new BMWs are coming with that much orange peel from the factory now, but they're so glossy you don't notice it until you're up close.

To get stuff to be "show car' ready it's a big process of cutting, buffing, etc, usually with wetsanding starting at 1000 grit, going to 3000 grit, then rubbing compounds and waxes.

[/URL]
View attachment 114338

View attachment 114339


That car was painted with Rustoleum applied with a foam roller, 5-6 thin coats with the paint thinned down to milk consistency. But he got it to looking "show car" nice by just spending massive amounts of time wetsanding and cutting and buffing it.

I don't really know how FPE and all that works for house trim, same with lacquered drywall, etc, but I'm assuming it's a similar crazy laborious practice.
Hey, thanks for the response. Yea my cousin paints luxury vehicles and the amount of money for a supreme quality paint job is crazy. But I’m looking into purchasing an hvlp, do you have any recommendations? I usually use an airless and have absolutely no experience running an hvlp, don’t even know what a good brand is for an affordable price. I heard the Fuji one is okay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
You could always just throw down a clear coat at the end of painting your cabs in whatever sheen you wish to achieve. I’m a pretty big fan of Milesi (or similar) high quality 1/2k WB poly products. These come in clear and tintable bases. They spray similar to Emerald Urethane/Cabinet Coat etc and are really durable. Just be careful if you go the 2k route. While 2k is more durable, the hardners are SUPER toxic. Beware the drywall (edit: dryfall…f*%# autocorrect!!) dust, especially in occupied spaces.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Hey, thanks for the response. Yea my cousin paints luxury vehicles and the amount of money for a supreme quality paint job is crazy. But I’m looking into purchasing an hvlp, do you have any recommendations? I usually use an airless and have absolutely no experience running an hvlp, don’t even know what a good brand is for an affordable price. I heard the Fuji one is okay.
I can only speak for what I know (very little even with that) from automotive painting land, but people in automotive painting land are having good luck with the Harbor Freight guns that are quite cheap, but quality control can be so so. Go on Youtube and there's people that have put down amazing finishes even with the $15 purple gun. Your bigger expense with an HVLP setup is the compressor, you need a big compressor to run one, and it's not the most portable thing to be bringing on site sometimes, compared to a smaller sprayer like a Titan Flexspray or similar. I think for a compressor you really need an upright for an ideal finish, which is about $200 alone just for one of those. Then you need regulators, filters, water separators, etc, etc. So doing all that you'd be at $300+ just to get into it before even getting a gun.

I have zero idea about the turbine fed HVLPs that are used more often in house painting, so hopefully people here know more. Those are a lot smaller and more compact, but also much more expensive overall compared to the compressor fed ones.
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
3,988 Posts
Why would you want the cabinets to look like a car finish? Is the client requesting it? I spray Advance all the time and it flows out like a sheet of glass. 🤷‍♀️ I'm sure many of the italian type 1k waterbased products do also. Renner, Milesi, Envirolak..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Why would you want the cabinets to look like a car finish? Is the client requesting it? I spray Advance all the time and it flows out like a sheet of glass. 🤷‍♀️ I'm sure many of the italian type 1k waterbased products do also. Renner, Milesi, Envirolak..
I’ve had clients inquire about glass like finishes in the past, but I always denied those jobs because I didn’t feel competent doing them. I’m doing my own to see if I can achieve that type of look because a client ive done work for in the past is willing to pay me if I can. Another issue is, I don’t have an hvlp, only airless, and want to know more about which paints are compatible spraying through an airless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,124 Posts
I’ve had clients inquire about glass like finishes in the past, but I always denied those jobs because I didn’t feel competent doing them. I’m doing my own to see if I can achieve that type of look because a client ive done work for in the past is willing to pay me if I can. Another issue is, I don’t have an hvlp, only airless, and want to know more about which paints are compatible spraying through an airless.
You'll need air assist airless to spray a high gloss mirror coating. Like I said all the labor is in the prep and primer stages the actual paint can be applied in as little as one coat at that point and achieve mirror finish. Needs to be perfectly smooth before applying finish and absolutely no dust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,124 Posts
I can only speak for what I know (very little even with that) from automotive painting land, but people in automotive painting land are having good luck with the Harbor Freight guns that are quite cheap, but quality control can be so so. Go on Youtube and there's people that have put down amazing finishes even with the $15 purple gun. Your bigger expense with an HVLP setup is the compressor, you need a big compressor to run one, and it's not the most portable thing to be bringing on site sometimes, compared to a smaller sprayer like a Titan Flexspray or similar. I think for a compressor you really need an upright for an ideal finish, which is about $200 alone just for one of those. Then you need regulators, filters, water separators, etc, etc. So doing all that you'd be at $300+ just to get into it before even getting a gun.

I have zero idea about the turbine fed HVLPs that are used more often in house painting, so hopefully people here know more. Those are a lot smaller and more compact, but also much more expensive overall compared to the compressor fed ones.
A "portable" paint grade compressor setup for HVLP looks like the following two compressors feeding a 10 gallon tank. Can run off 120v provided enough amperage or separate circuits
2x Rolair VT25BIG 2x$514=$1028
1x Rolair 10 gallon tank = $180
water/ oil separator: ~300
SATA X5500: $900
regulator: $100
hoses + fittings: $100
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,338 Posts
I personally have never had a client even want something shinier than a semigloss. Also, you might want a mirror finish, but most cabinets, unless they are a euro style flat finish will never achieve that type of finish based on the curves of the doors. To me I wouldn't waste the energy on it, but really just invest in great equipment like the festool, but surfprep IMHO is the way to go as a sander for cabinets. Then look at negative air systems and containment poles for making your site dust freeish. Then choose great easy to use products like Envirolak. I know I'm probably biased, but this is what I use and get great results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
As some of the others have mentioned you might try out a gallon of 1k such as Renner, Envirolak, Centurion etc. One thing I like about these products is they also dry up really tight when sprayed vertically once you get them dialed even with an airless, and in imo better hang vs. products like emerald or advance. Really useful when you've got those big end panels in a kitchen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I personally have never had a client even want something shinier than a semigloss. Also, you might want a mirror finish, but most cabinets, unless they are a euro style flat finish will never achieve that type of finish based on the curves of the doors. To me I wouldn't waste the energy on it, but really just invest in great equipment like the festool, but surfprep IMHO is the way to go as a sander for cabinets. Then look at negative air systems and containment poles for making your site dust freeish. Then choose great easy to use products like Envirolak. I know I'm probably biased, but this is what I use and get great results.
Yea, I only seen cabinets with a glass like finish once in my life. I don’t personally know if people desire cabinets that glossy, or they just can’t afford it and would like to have them like that.
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
3,988 Posts
Sprayed this with High Gloss Cornado Oil. Like others have said, it's all about the prep work and wood used as you will see everything like the Dents in this picture.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
I used Dunn Edwards "Aristoshield" for a little while on Cabinets

I would prime them with Coverstain and then 2 coats of the Paint

The Semi-Gloss would come out super smooth and shiny,but it took forever to dry,even in heat

Especially dark colors,the darker the color,the longer the dry time,but it did dry hard smooth and shiney,when it finally did dry

I dont use it anymore,too much time,I moved to Conversion Varnish,satin finish,dries faster,harder and smooth as silk,shoot it with my Air Assisted Airless 16-1,thin it a bit,retard it a bit more,flows like glass,customers love it
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top