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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I’m new here. Not sure how to post a video, so please see this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/paint/comments/r8ednv
I’m painting some garage cabinets I built. I made a test “cabinet” piece out of scraps. It’s primed with Zinsser BIN (not tinted) and sanded with 220 grit, just like my cabinets. I sprayed the BM Advance with a Graco airless using a 208 tip. I sprayed a 2nd coat between 16-24 hours later. The first coat was sprayed on 11/4/21, so it’s had 28 days to cure so far. After painting, I let the paint dry for a few hours, then I ran a fan over it for the first 5 days or so. Temps in my garage may get down to 50s or 60s overnight, 70s during the day. Humidity rarely exceeded 45%. On a couple rainy days it barely hit like 51% or 52%.

Overall, the paint seems dry and hard. I would be happy to proceed, except as you can see in the video, if I really try I can chip it with a fingernail down to the primer. Is this normal? It’s had almost the full 30 days to cure, so I can’t see how more time is going to prevent me from chipping it like this.

Did I apply it wrong? Is there an adhesion problem? Does it simply need more cure time?

I painted these test pieces because I spent 4 months and dozens of hours building my garage cabinets, and I don’t want to screw up the real paint job on my actual cabinets. But it’s excruciating to have to wait 30 days of cure time just to see if my test job worked. I don’t want to have to do another test and wait another 30 days just to see if that one worked. I’m going insane wondering what to do. Please help, thanks!
 

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Umm… I’m not sure you understand what humidity means. If I had used the words “relative humidity” would that have made it clear for you? If not, please enlighten me, or is this how new users are welcomed here?

From the BMA data sheet for drying under ”mild” conditions: Dry (RH<50%), and Temperature between 70 ̊ F and 90 ̊ F

When it rains, there’s more moisture in the air, hence the higher RH in my garage. I literally read my RH number off a digital temp/humidity sensor. I provided this information as it is relevant to the curing time and to demonstrate to the people I’m seeking help from that I’ve done at least some due diligence.

Now how about that chipping, which is what my question was about?
 

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Umm… I’m not sure you understand what humidity means. If I had used the words “relative humidity” would that have made it clear for you? If not, please enlighten me, or is this how new users are welcomed here?

From the BMA data sheet for drying under ”mild” conditions: Dry (RH<50%), and Temperature between 70 ̊ F and 90 ̊ F

When it rains, there’s more moisture in the air, hence the higher RH in my garage. I literally read my RH number off a digital temp/humidity sensor. I provided this information as it is relevant to the curing time and to demonstrate to the people I’m seeking help from that I’ve done at least some due diligence.

Now how about that chipping, which is what my question was about?
Seeing as there are 1000+ things that can go wrong with a finish... On top of that advance is fairly slow to cure in a dark color. Also I don't use or recommend shellac for a number of reasons so I would start there personally. Switch to cabinetcoat or a 2k urethane like renner, melisi, centurion... you;ll have a better result
 

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Advance and most paints take longer to cure in deep base colors, which your color seems like it is. 28 days is a lot of time, though.

I recently used some Advance satin in my own house and it's doing worse as far as wear compared to semi-gloss Muralo Ultra (which no longer exists) I had before. I don't know if it's a newer formulation that gets less hard or what, or the fact I went with satin instead of semi-gloss (though the satin level of Advance is just a hair lower than Muralo SG.)

I think overall what you experienced is "normal" for latex paints, in the same way Toyota says burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles is "normal" oil consumption. It's not ideal oil consumption, though. That said, most Toyotas consume 1 qt of oil every 5000 miles or whatever, and not 1000. My guess is the deep base and somewhat colder temps and higher humidity made it have a longer cure, and it may resolve in time, may not. I've also heard that Advance over shellac can have problems.

Truthfully you can't really expect an automotive paint level of durability from most products on the market, in a typical home scenario they're definitely fine but for almost certain an actual solvent based trim paint would be stronger, or the products Coco listed. I think in a garage being honest I'd probably use regular solvent based Rustoleum or the Benjamin Moore P22 alkyd (I think it's a Corotech product now?) if you wanted to do it on a budget, simply because in a garage environment you're going to be dealing with solvents and grease, and I just don't foresee any latex paint standing up to that well as those things can fairly readily strip/bubble almost all water based coatings unless they're catalyzed (like the 2K urethanes.)
 

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Hello, I’m new here. Not sure how to post a video, so please see this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/paint/comments/r8ednv
I’m painting some garage cabinets I built. I made a test “cabinet” piece out of scraps. It’s primed with Zinsser BIN (not tinted) and sanded with 220 grit, just like my cabinets. I sprayed the BM Advance with a Graco airless using a 208 tip. I sprayed a 2nd coat between 16-24 hours later. The first coat was sprayed on 11/4/21, so it’s had 28 days to cure so far. After painting, I let the paint dry for a few hours, then I ran a fan over it for the first 5 days or so. Temps in my garage may get down to 50s or 60s overnight, 70s during the day. Humidity rarely exceeded 45%. On a couple rainy days it barely hit like 51% or 52%.

Overall, the paint seems dry and hard. I would be happy to proceed, except as you can see in the video, if I really try I can chip it with a fingernail down to the primer. Is this normal? It’s had almost the full 30 days to cure, so I can’t see how more time is going to prevent me from chipping it like this.

Did I apply it wrong? Is there an adhesion problem? Does it simply need more cure time?

I painted these test pieces because I spent 4 months and dozens of hours building my garage cabinets, and I don’t want to screw up the real paint job on my actual cabinets. But it’s excruciating to have to wait 30 days of cure time just to see if my test job worked. I don’t want to have to do another test and wait another 30 days just to see if that one worked. I’m going insane wondering what to do. Please help, thanks!
That's an adhesion problem.

BIN is probably not the best primer for an Advance top coat. What you're doing is equivalent to repainting cabinets that have been finished with clear. Adhesion is always a challenge when you're doing something like that. You would have better results with a waterborne acrylic primer, since your topcoat is a waterborne acrylic alkyd. Adhesion should be vastly improved.

One of my favorite waterborne primers for wood is made by ML Campbell. It's their Agualente line white primer, though you need to spray it. It dries too quickly for brushing and rolling. But you can sand it 30 minutes after application and it won't raise the grain. It should also still be porous enough for advance to adhere to. Give it a try.

Also, since I don't know your skill level, make sure you are removing all the sanding dust from the primed surface before applying your topcoat. Not just an air blast with the compressor, but also go over it with a tack cloth. That fine dust will interfere with adhesion as well.

You don't need to wait a full 30 days to check the adhesion of your topcoat. Most of the curing process happens within the first 72 hours. If you want to be extra sure, give it 7 days. If you can still scratch it off after 7 days, waiting a full 30 isn't going to make it any better.
 

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Umm… I’m not sure you understand what humidity means. If I had used the words “relative humidity” would that have made it clear for you? If not, please enlighten me, or is this how new users are welcomed here?

From the BMA data sheet for drying under ”mild” conditions: Dry (RH<50%), and Temperature between 70 ̊ F and 90 ̊ F

When it rains, there’s more moisture in the air, hence the higher RH in my garage. I literally read my RH number off a digital temp/humidity sensor. I provided this information as it is relevant to the curing time and to demonstrate to the people I’m seeking help from that I’ve done at least some due diligence.

Now how about that chipping, which is what my question was about?
@ Q-maker. As a new comer, you may have not read the rules of the forum. As this is a forum for discussions between Painters and Painting Contractors and will get a warmer welcome if you introduce yourself. Although this is a great question and some great answers. As stated, most darker colours in 1 part products tend to stay a little softer and take longer to cure. I've also wondered about coating directly over BIN as it leaves such a hard finish. Maybe a 2nd coat of latex primer after the BIN would be beneficial or add a clear coat over the Advance. I usually do that with darker tones.
If starting from bare wood, there are far superior products on the market for cabinets. The benefits of Advance are in the repainting /residential business. This thread may be closed soon.
 

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stop picking at it.
temps in the 50s and 60s (and rainy day humidity) will slow dry time. 50's is too cold for alkyd hybrids, imo. Will probably be fine after full cure.

***To others: Is Pro Classic Acrylic Alkyd the same with darker colors as Advance (longer dry/cure times) ? Or is the issue specific to advance?
 

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