Professional Painting Contractors Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Painting some wood cabinets . First time using Benjamin Moore advance . Spray came out good but I am seeing many scratches through the paint . I sanded light with 220 . I have never used BJ Moore advanced before but never seen this many scratches show through with the first coat sprayed . Will this gradually decrease with more coats . If not are there any other recommendations . Paint is white dove .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
Painting some wood cabinets . First time using Benjamin Moore advance . Spray came out good but I am seeing many scratches through the paint . I sanded light with 220 . I have never used BJ Moore advanced before but never seen this many scratches show through with the first coat sprayed . Will this gradually decrease with more coats . If not are there any other recommendations . Paint is white dove .
Maybe you're not sanding it good enough. You should be applying a primer first and sanding that before the topcoat. Use a primer that powders up nicely like BIN.

The only time I saw scratch marks was when I stupidly sanded between coats using Advance. I stopped doing that since. Sanding between coats is not recommended. If you absolutely have to try wet sanding.

Do all your prep before the topcoat and you're good to go. You shouldn't have scratch marks if sanded correctly. I use Bondo red topping compound & a rattle can of BIN primer if I missed something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It has always been recommended to light sand between cuts. I’m not sure if I want to sand everything down again . I used zinsser 123 primer .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
It has always been recommended to light sand between cuts. I’m not sure if I want to sand everything down again . I used zinsser 123 primer .

Like Mr. Smith said, do all your prep before your primer. After primer, give a very light sand to make it smooth. No more sanding after this step. Two top coats is normal for enamels, so no need for a sand between 1 and 2 coat of finish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,767 Posts
Yep, advance shows everything. you have to do very even and fine sanding with the grain before topcoat. It's good habit to not have to sand between coats... get the prep nice enough and spray smooth enough, there's no reason to sand except for the rare flaw or debris. wet sand carefully ONLY with advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Maybe you're not sanding it good enough. You should be applying a primer first and sanding that before the topcoat. Use a primer that powders up nicely like BIN.

The only time I saw scratch marks was when I stupidly sanded between coats using Advance. I stopped doing that since. Sanding between coats is not recommended. If you absolutely have to try wet sanding.

Do all your prep before the topcoat and you're good to go. You shouldn't have scratch marks if sanded correctly. I use Bondo red topping compound & a rattle can of BIN primer if I missed something.
Like Mr. Smith said, do all your prep before your primer. After primer, give a very light sand to make it smooth. No more sanding after this step. Two top coats is normal for enamels, so no need for a sand between 1 and 2 coat of finish.
THanks for the suggestions. I attached some pictures. Time is not an issue. I'm just wondering what I should do from here. Should I sand it down more with a 150 and get some of the paint off of it and get Zinsser BIN and spray 1 or 2 coats on top of these cabinets and it and spray the top coat. Or should I just spray the Zinsser BIN over it without sanding them down more. I also saw a post that synthetic steel wool did not show through Benjamin moore advance so if I do need to do sanding between coats because of little touch ups, maybe I will use that.


Edit: Could someone also explain why the sand marks from from the primer don't show through the top coat but sanding in between coats shows?


Which Zinsser BIN primer would you recommend: BIN white shellac based or the BIN advanced white syntehtic shellac.
 

Attachments

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,077 Posts
Edit: Could someone also explain why the sand marks from from the primer don't show through the top coat but sanding in between coats shows?
Primers are designed to be sanded and many will powder out meaning a light reside of powder will result when sanding. You can usually get a nice smooth finish on the primer coat from sanding properly.

Your enamel top coats are going to be harder finishes so powdering is significantly reduced and sanding scratches will show more easily. Plus, the two top coats over the primer will generally mask any light scratch lines that were left in the primer finish. So, if you sand your first coat of enamel, you will be creating scratches and you will generally only have one more coat to put down in which to try and cover them. Unless, that is, you plan on applying three or four coats - which is generally a profit killer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jwash348

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Primers are designed to be sanded and many will powder out meaning a light reside of powder will result when sanding. You can usually get a nice smooth finish on the primer coat from sanding properly.

Your enamel top coats are going to be harder finishes so powdering is significantly reduced and sanding scratches will show more easily. Plus, the two top coats over the primer will generally mask any light scratch lines that were left in the primer finish. So, if you sand your first coat of enamel, you will be creating scratches and you will generally only have one more coat to put down in which to try and cover them. Unless, that is, you plan on applying three or four coats - which is generally a profit killer.
Ok I will try to sand it down close to having the wood showing through. Then add Zinsser BIN primer 2 coats and sand. I did't realize scratches would show through easily with advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
Ok I will try to sand it down close to having the wood showing through. Then add Zinsser BIN primer 2 coats and sand. I did't realize scratches would show through easily with advance.

Using anything from 180 up is going to show some marks. 180 is my go to for sanding cabinets, then I just use medium to fine sanding pads, the 3x4 1/2"foam for any other sanding between coats. And, its not really sanding, its just going over the surface trying to catch a small piece of lint, dust, whatever that your hand can feel.


Unless you have an adhesion problem, no need to go to another primer now. Just shoot the finish twice, maybe shoot the fronts a third time if needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Maybe you're not sanding it good enough. You should be applying a primer first and sanding that before the topcoat. Use a primer that powders up nicely like BIN.

The only time I saw scratch marks was when I stupidly sanded between coats using Advance. I stopped doing that since. Sanding between coats is not recommended. If you absolutely have to try wet sanding.

Do all your prep before the topcoat and you're good to go. You shouldn't have scratch marks if sanded correctly. I use Bondo red topping compound & a rattle can of BIN primer if I missed something.
Using anything from 180 up is going to show some marks. 180 is my go to for sanding cabinets, then I just use medium to fine sanding pads, the 3x4 1/2"foam for any other sanding between coats. And, its not really sanding, its just going over the surface trying to catch a small piece of lint, dust, whatever that your hand can feel.


Unless you have an adhesion problem, no need to go to another primer now. Just shoot the finish twice, maybe shoot the fronts a third time if needed.
I also did not mention I used a orbital sander but I was light with it. surface feels very smooth. Not sure if using an orbital sander had anything to do with it. The scratches are obviously from the orbital I can tell by the design/ pattern of the scratches

I also plan on taking it to my paint store today to see what they may recommend. They are BM distributors
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
2,786 Posts
What are you applying your paint with?
Roller, hvlp, airless?
I use advance all the time. The only time Ive had issues is with HVLP as it gos on so thin. Advance flows out really nice, so an extra coat will normally do the trick.
Definitely don't sand between coats or your asking for this problem.


Maybe you're not sanding it good enough. You should be applying a primer first and sanding that before the topcoat. Use a primer that powders up nicely like BIN.

The only time I saw scratch marks was when I stupidly sanded between coats using Advance. I stopped doing that since. Sanding between coats is not recommended. If you absolutely have to try wet sanding.

Do all your prep before the topcoat and you're good to go. You shouldn't have scratch marks if sanded correctly. I use Bondo red topping compound & a rattle can of BIN primer if I missed something.
Using anything from 180 up is going to show some marks. 180 is my go to for sanding cabinets, then I just use medium to fine sanding pads, the 3x4 1/2"foam for any other sanding between coats. And, its not really sanding, its just going over the surface trying to catch a small piece of lint, dust, whatever that your hand can feel.


Unless you have an adhesion problem, no need to go to another primer now. Just shoot the finish twice, maybe shoot the fronts a third time if needed.
I also did not mention I used a orbital sander but I was light with it. surface feels very smooth. Not sure if using an orbital sander had anything to do with it. The scratches are obviously from the orbital I can tell by the design/ pattern of the scratches

I also plan on taking it to my paint store today to see what they may recommend. They are BM distributors
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
What are you applying your paint with?
Roller, hvlp, airless?
I use advance all the time. The only time Ive had issues is with HVLP as it gos on so thin. Advance flows out really nice, so an extra coat will normally do the trick.
Definitely don't sand between coats or your asking for this problem.
I am using an airless graco FFLP 310. I had a cheap HVLP ( did not work well with advance). airless sprays nice. My problem was my prep work like most said. Thankfully I was able to wet sand 400 fine grit alot of the scratches made with the orbital. It looks smooth and shiny now. Hopefully a coat over this will make it looks better. I will make sure on the rest of my cabinets to sand first, then use BIN prime, then sand spots as needed. Then I will NOT SAND ANYMORE unless necessary .


Question: Have you ever applied an extra coat sooner than 24 hours. I have not done this but seen some people mention doing this
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
2,786 Posts
It's actually a 16 hr. Recoat time, but yes I've done it on like spindles and misc. Trims. I just wouldn't chance it on a sprayed cabinet door. Not worth it.
You may also consider 2 coats of primer if your doing alot of heavy sanding..;)

What are you applying your paint with?
Roller, hvlp, airless?
I use advance all the time. The only time Ive had issues is with HVLP as it gos on so thin. Advance flows out really nice, so an extra coat will normally do the trick.
Definitely don't sand between coats or your asking for this problem.
I am using an airless graco FFLP 310. I had a cheap HVLP ( did not work well with advance). airless sprays nice. My problem was my prep work like most said. Thankfully I was able to wet sand 400 fine grit alot of the scratches made with the orbital. It looks smooth and shiny now. Hopefully a coat over this will make it looks better. I will make sure on the rest of my cabinets to sand first, then use BIN prime, then sand spots as needed. Then I will NOT SAND ANYMORE unless necessary .


Question: Have you ever applied an extra coat sooner than 24 hours. I have not done this but seen some people mention doing this
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,103 Posts
400 grit to sand under final coat. I just got done with a whole remodel, and had to repaint the whole thing by hand... A ton of spots where I spackled nail holes showed a lump the size of a quarter, or however big my spackle smear was. Its weird, cuz I went over everything with an orbital , then primed, then hand sanded, but a bunch of them showed through. On top of that, the GC went crazy nitpicking every tiny defect in the wood.... I spent two days resanding, respackling, then cut and rolling most of the trim, and every single casing face. On the bright side, my mohair roller made it look like it was still sprayed. Honestly, i looked a little better even. I hate advance now.... Someday, I'll figure it out though. I told my GC Im charging double the next job though. ..

As far as primer, if you are using bin, you might want to use a 2nd primer with some build to it. I always BIN first, lightly sand, then hit it with a good coat of Latex Undercoater to fill some pores.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
400 grit to sand under final coat. I just got done with a whole remodel, and had to repaint the whole thing by hand... A ton of spots where I spackled nail holes showed a lump the size of a quarter, or however big my spackle smear was. Its weird, cuz I went over everything with an orbital , then primed, then hand sanded, but a bunch of them showed through. On top of that, the GC went crazy nitpicking every tiny defect in the wood.... I spent two days resanding, respackling, then cut and rolling most of the trim, and every single casing face. On the bright side, my mohair roller made it look like it was still sprayed. Honestly, i looked a little better even. I hate advance now.... Someday, I'll figure it out though. I told my GC Im charging double the next job though. ..

As far as primer, if you are using bin, you might want to use a 2nd primer with some build to it. I always BIN first, lightly sand, then hit it with a good coat of Latex Undercoater to fill some pores.
Update: I went sanded all the ones that showed scratches through. Resprayed and it looks amazing. Smoothest finish. At first I thought I put to thick of a layer on top but it leveled out very nice. I have not painted one that I reprimed. I only reprimed one with 2 coats. Going to sand it and see if the scratches show through.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
What grit did you use? I’m having the exact same problem.
Update: I went sanded all the ones that showed scratches through. Resprayed and it looks amazing. Smoothest finish. At first I thought I put to thick of a layer on top but it leveled out very nice. I have not painted one that I reprimed. I only reprimed one with 2 coats. Going to sand it and see if the scratches show through.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top