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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wondering if anyone has gotten a chance to try Benjamin Moore fast sanding primer:

As per my dealer, it just came out about six months ago. They claim that it sands to a powder (just like BIN), but in a pure acrylic. Suggested uses are wood trim as well as drywall.

I picked up a case a few days ago.

One of my pet peeves is producing a super-smooth finish on walls (read: minimal stipple) without spraying.

This is near impossible when working on walls that some jabroni previously rolled with a 1/2" or 3/4" inch nap roller. We generally skim coat with with USG All Purpose (green) applied with rollers and then sand it out. Wondering if this may be easier.
 

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Just wondering if anyone has gotten a chance to try Benjamin Moore fast sanding primer:

As per my dealer, it just came out about six months ago. They claim that it sands to a powder (just like BIN), but in a pure acrylic. Suggested uses are wood trim as well as drywall.

I picked up a case a few days ago.

One of my pet peeves is producing a super-smooth finish on walls (read: minimal stipple) without spraying.

This is near impossible when working on walls that some jabroni previously rolled with a 1/2" or 3/4" inch nap roller. We generally skim coat with with USG All Purpose (green) applied with rollers and then sand it out. Wondering if this may be easier.
Wish I had this a week ago had a door needed to paint and get installed next day. Used aqua lock and lost about 3 hours waiting for it to cure enough to sand but made up for it using command and a tritech 308 tip.
 

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I can see
Just wondering if anyone has gotten a chance to try Benjamin Moore fast sanding primer:

As per my dealer, it just came out about six months ago. They claim that it sands to a powder (just like BIN), but in a pure acrylic. Suggested uses are wood trim as well as drywall.

I picked up a case a few days ago.

One of my pet peeves is producing a super-smooth finish on walls (read: minimal stipple) without spraying.

This is near impossible when working on walls that some jabroni previously rolled with a 1/2" or 3/4" inch nap roller. We generally skim coat with with USG All Purpose (green) applied with rollers and then sand it out. Wondering if this may be easier.
I can see this being good for wood projects. Although not much difference than the ultra Spec k253? Personally I think a little stipple on walls is a good thing.🤷
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I laid out an initial coat on my own home tonight. I'm hesitant to post anything yet until I see how it looks tomorrow.

Related note, when I bought my TriTech T5, the dealer asked where we were working and offered to deliver it to the job site. Told them that I was appreciative, but to deliver it to my house. I couldn't imagine the concept of using a new sprayer (or coating, etc) on a customer's project before getting familiar with it. All new equipment/materials goes through T&E (testing and eval) at my house or a friend's house.

As I mentioned, my initial testing is going to be for interior walls with the goal of producing minimal stipple. This thread provides some excellent info on how to do it:

I've had phenomenal results with that technique (skim coat then Gardz) using Sherwin-Williams Emerald with a bit of extender in it.

As the thread notes, with Gardz being clear, it can be difficult to tell how well you did on drywall repairs. So I gave this a shot over two coats of Gardz that were rolled after skim coating with USG Green.. Did some very minimal sanding after the second coat of Gardz.

What I will say for now is that odor, while not zero, is minimal compared to Gardz. I initially started rolling with a Home Depot best microfiber (rebranded Linzer) but switched out to a Wooster Pro-Dooz after one wall as it appeared to be going on less than smooth. I laid it on somewhat thick, as the goal will be to achieve enough of a build that it can be sanded smooth/flat. Will keep everyone posted.
 

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Wish I had this a week ago had a door needed to paint and get installed next day. Used aqua lock and lost about 3 hours waiting for it to cure enough to sand but made up for it using command and a tritech 308 tip.
Hello cocomonkeynuts. I just sprayed 3 gals of aqua lock on a bunch of new "factory primed" doors. 24 hrs later sanding with 220g with my esc150 was a pain. Constantly gummed up the paper, creating little balls of paint. Ended up block sanding everything. Next time I'll spray the Smart Prime. I'll save aqua lock for walls.
 

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Hello cocomonkeynuts. I just sprayed 3 gals of aqua lock on a bunch of new "factory primed" doors. 24 hrs later sanding with 220g with my esc150 was a pain. Constantly gummed up the paper, creating little balls of paint. Ended up block sanding everything. Next time I'll spray the Smart Prime. I'll save aqua lock for walls.
Aqualock is good at many things but if you need to sand I would skip it all together (y)
 

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I laid out an initial coat on my own home tonight. I'm hesitant to post anything yet until I see how it looks tomorrow.

Related note, when I bought my TriTech T5, the dealer asked where we were working and offered to deliver it to the job site. Told them that I was appreciative, but to deliver it to my house. I couldn't imagine the concept of using a new sprayer (or coating, etc) on a customer's project before getting familiar with it. All new equipment/materials goes through T&E (testing and eval) at my house or a friend's house.

As I mentioned, my initial testing is going to be for interior walls with the goal of producing minimal stipple. This thread provides some excellent info on how to do it:

I've had phenomenal results with that technique (skim coat then Gardz) using Sherwin-Williams Emerald with a bit of extender in it.

As the thread notes, with Gardz being clear, it can be difficult to tell how well you did on drywall repairs. So I gave this a shot over two coats of Gardz that were rolled after skim coating with USG Green.. Did some very minimal sanding after the second coat of Gardz.

What I will say for now is that odor, while not zero, is minimal compared to Gardz. I initially started rolling with a Home Depot best microfiber (rebranded Linzer) but switched out to a Wooster Pro-Dooz after one wall as it appeared to be going on less than smooth. I laid it on somewhat thick, as the goal will be to achieve enough of a build that it can be sanded smooth/flat. Will keep everyone posted.
As an FYI, if you're spraying a few of the paint companies make high build primers to replace a skimcoat, but they don't work when brushed and rolled due to their thickness and lack of ability to level from a roller.

SW makes those for spray only

This is USG's version.

That said, one thing I'm convinced about for a truly stipple free finish is ultimately nothing can provide it unless you are burnishing/polishing your finish coats. Even automotive finishes have orange peel, some really appreciable nowadays with new 2K systems, etc.
Automotive tail & brake light Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Hood Automotive design

That's a factory new BMW M3 with orange peel.

Automotive parking light Car Tire Automotive tail & brake light Vehicle

This is a factory new 2019 Toyota Tundra with orange peel.

For the final stage of most automotive jobs, you cut and buff with 1000-3000 grit sandpaper and rubbing compounds and waxes for a showcar kind of finish. I think if you want to be a good painter, the best thing to do is get some cross training, so to speak, in the automotive painting world. I wish we allowed automotive paint topics here, as it's a fascinating world.

So I think we could forgive ourselves a bit with regards to orange peel, etc, in a house with an eggshell paint. Good is good, and bad is bad, but even automotive finishes aren't perfect.

I do hope the BM primer works out, though. If it sands as well as an oil primer it would be pretty awesome. That was one aspect of Fresh Start 046 I even liked, relative to other latex primers I think it sanded pretty well. I was really surprised I could very lightly scuff sand it out after an hour or two when using it over luan and some trim used to make a back for a cabinet in a kitchen. It was really really hot in the room and I had all the windows open and a fan, etc, but it sanded a lot better than I expected, with no gumminess and to powder, so I'd have high hopes in using this kind of primer in those scenarios over wood. But I don't think it would really end up replacing a skimcoat, especially with brush and rolling.

In a brush and roll scenario while you can't replace a skimcoat, often I think the best order if you want smoother walls but can't skim is heavily sand your existing coat, coat with any decent enough latex general purpose primer, medium/lightly sand that, then very lightly sand your first finish coat, and then your second coat will look surprisingly a lot better than if you just slapped it on the existing wall with no primer/etc, but it won't look skimmed, but you also won't need to deal with knifing everything down and the dust/etc skimming entails.
 

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As an FYI, if you're spraying a few of the paint companies make high build primers to replace a skimcoat, but they don't work when brushed and rolled due to their thickness and lack of ability to level from a roller.

SW makes those for spray only

This is USG's version.

That said, one thing I'm convinced about for a truly stipple free finish is ultimately nothing can provide it unless you are burnishing/polishing your finish coats. Even automotive finishes have orange peel, some really appreciable nowadays with new 2K systems, etc.

That's a factory new BMW M3 with orange peel.


This is a factory new 2019 Toyota Tundra with orange peel.

For the final stage of most automotive jobs, you cut and buff with 1000-3000 grit sandpaper and rubbing compounds and waxes for a showcar kind of finish. I think if you want to be a good painter, the best thing to do is get some cross training, so to speak, in the automotive painting world. I wish we allowed automotive paint topics here, as it's a fascinating world.

So I think we could forgive ourselves a bit with regards to orange peel, etc, in a house with an eggshell paint. Good is good, and bad is bad, but even automotive finishes aren't perfect.

I do hope the BM primer works out, though. If it sands as well as an oil primer it would be pretty awesome. That was one aspect of Fresh Start 046 I even liked, relative to other latex primers I think it sanded pretty well. I was really surprised I could very lightly scuff sand it out after an hour or two when using it over luan and some trim used to make a back for a cabinet in a kitchen. It was really really hot in the room and I had all the windows open and a fan, etc, but it sanded a lot better than I expected, with no gumminess and to powder, so I'd have high hopes in using this kind of primer in those scenarios over wood. But I don't think it would really end up replacing a skimcoat, especially with brush and rolling.

In a brush and roll scenario while you can't replace a skimcoat, often I think the best order if you want smoother walls but can't skim is heavily sand your existing coat, coat with any decent enough latex general purpose primer, medium/lightly sand that, then very lightly sand your first finish coat, and then your second coat will look surprisingly a lot better than if you just slapped it on the existing wall with no primer/etc, but it won't look skimmed, but you also won't need to deal with knifing everything down and the dust/etc skimming entails.
FPE can provide it but the steps to get there are labor intensive, here is a sample we made from a while back. I know many who have tried to take short cuts and inevitably fail even the high build primers do not get you there.
 

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Who the heck is paying to have their walls skim coated, primed and sanded to a smooth finish? Hope this is an expected and paid level 5 finish or your just wasting your time. I'm not saying that people don't pay for it from time to time, but I sure as heck wouldn't expect to do that on every basic repaint.
 

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Who the heck is paying to have their walls skim coated, primed and sanded to a smooth finish? Hope this is an expected and paid level 5 finish or your just wasting your time. I'm not saying that people don't pay for it from time to time, but I sure as heck wouldn't expect to do that on every basic repaint.
You'd be surprised what some people expect.

Some people want the house painting equivalent of showing up to Maaco for a $600 paint job with a car full of dents and rust holes, and are surprised that the $600 quote no longer applies under those conditions.

It's better not to indulge those people as customers, but sometimes there's a bit of a bait and switch on their behalf, too.

FPE can provide it but the steps to get there are labor intensive, here is a sample we made from a while back. I know many who have tried to take short cuts and inevitably fail even the high build primers do not get you there.
Isn't the FPE "Swedish Putty" more or less just an alkyd glazing putty? I think that's another thing, just drywall compound alone if you want to go for crazy super ultra smooth, is not quite smooth enough, you end up needing actual alkyd glazing putties to go smoother. Also why there's the somewhat controversial use of red Bondo glazing putty on trim prep so often it seems. Despite being an old and "obsolete" product it definitely seems to work.
 

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Isn't the FPE "Swedish Putty" more or less just an alkyd glazing putty? I think that's another thing, just drywall compound alone if you want to go for crazy super ultra smooth, is not quite smooth enough, you end up needing actual alkyd glazing putties to go smoother. Also why there's the somewhat controversial use of red Bondo glazing putty on trim prep so often it seems. Despite being an old and "obsolete" product it definitely seems to work.
yes it is an alkyd putty so nice to work with. I find this video explains the process somewhat... the sample I did was 800 grit between coats
Skim, sand, spray, repeat!"o_O

 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I looked into the USG Tuff Hide after a friend who is a former union taper told me about it. You are correct in that it is spray only. You need an absolute beast of an airless to push it. As per USG's TDS, the minimum spec to spray Tuff Hide is a Graco Mark V (which runs over $8K).

I'm in an affluent area where plenty of people pay for high-end work. At least as of a few years ago, in NY, true level 5 skim was the standard in every commercial office building until at least 2005 or so. Even drywall in warehouses was done to true level 5. People have tried to call bullshit with me on that one--and have lost hard. This is fact. Why? Because the Chin preferred level 5.

I have all of the random orbitals, compounds, etc for car detailing. Going to give that type of painting a try on a commercial lawnmower I own. With regard to walls, I have a Festool Planex 2 and a big dust extractor. The built in light is a complete game changer. Not ponying up the cash for one of those is false economy. All I hear from other guys is "$1,500 is crazy." It pays for itself in 2-3 drywall jobs.

Finally, we have gotten some of our best results with SW Emerald matte. I know that it has a horrible reputation here. That said, most of the disparaging posts seem to be after a substantial reformulation. While the coverage is not as good as Aura, stuff just lays out fantastic. And contractor price is quite good.
 
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