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Well the owner lost the paint ! I had to buy another gal, which I'll have to charge her for. my concern is the 7 doors won't color match the rest of the kitchen. its only sprayable paint except for small touch ups.I will tell her to touch them up herself after this time.
Thanks everyone for the advice & tips. Much appreciated !
Sorry, but the owner sounds like an idiot. I make a point of labeling and dating any leftover paint and tell customers to save it for this exact reason.
I would certainly let her know that touch-ups may not match and that any extra costs associated with that will be on her dime. You can’t be held responsible for the panels moving (and certainly not for the “lost” paint) so this entire issue could easily turn into a huge time sink. Don’t be afraid to protect yourself from issues that are beyond your control.
 

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Sorry, but the owner sounds like an idiot. I make a point of labeling and dating any leftover paint and tell customers to save it for this exact reason.
I would certainly let her know that touch-ups may not match and that any extra costs associated with that will be on her dime. You can’t be held responsible for the panels moving (and certainly not for the “lost” paint) so this entire issue could easily turn into a huge time sink. Don’t be afraid to protect yourself from issues that are beyond your control.
especially so because often lacquer products are not tint controlled
 

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paint store sales. over 40 years experience
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My guesstimate is the water entered the exposed wood creating a shift or swelling. Arroyo, I see is a waterborne product thus creating swelling of the Maple. Hindsite being 20/20, definitely would have caulked or puttied the seams prior to painting. Probably have suggested a shellac to minimize future tanin bleeding.
 

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I use Campbell waterborne products all the time, including Arroyo. I am located in the Northeast as well. You definitely don't want to soak the doors when you clean them. This can potentially invite this issue. We do tons of cabinet jobs and have only had this happen on a few occasions. Generally, it was when the cabinets were done during warmer humid times and then ended up shrinking in the winter due to the dry heat. My warranty explains that this situation is not covered, but I usually do it once for free as a good will gesture anyways. The Arroyo is self sealing, so you can just touch it up with an artist brush. Once you touch it up once, it usually doesn't happen again because you have now colored the area that would be exposed. I don't think I've spent more than an hour on a job doing this, but the customer has always been greatly appreciative. Even though the Arroyo is self sealing, I still usually strip and prime first with Aquafi, which has stain blocking ability to it. Any real stubborn spots that bleed, I usually hit with a spray can of Problock. If the cabinets are in real good shape, you could potentially skip the primer. I have tested it without primer and it has great adhesion, just no stain blocking ability.
 

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I build cabinets and I paint the perimeter of the panel before I assemble. But normally that avenue is not available to painters.

Wood expands/contracts greater along the direction of the grain. So if you have a solid wood panel, it will expand and contract along the direction of the stiles (see illustration) and no unpainted panel will show.

However in the direction of the rails, the rail will expand more than the panel and some unpainted panel will show with the seasonal movement of the wood.

If you see exposed unpainted panel in both directions then the center panel was made of MDF or plywood and did not expand/contract at all while the rails and stiles did.


If you walk through the cabinet display at Lowes, Menards, or Home Depot, at various times of the year you will see exposed unpainted center panels on the painted doors.

I never asked my unpainted cabinet customers how they handled those complaints.

I’m about 90% retired now, and I have only two remaining customers, and they both buy painted from me, so they don’t encounter this issue.

From the consumers’ perspective, it is a painting problem. From where I sit, it is a process issue. The center panel needs to be painted prior to assembly. I only paint the perimeter of the center panels prior to assembly and they I paint the entire door.

I’m not sure my post offers any help in this issue. It would at least provide some understanding of the issue.
 

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I build cabinets and I paint the perimeter of the panel before I assemble. But normally that avenue is not available to painters. Wood expands/contracts greater along the direction of the grain. So if you have a solid wood panel, it will expand and contract along the direction of the stiles (see illustration) and no unpainted panel will show. However in the direction of the rails, the rail will expand more than the panel and some unpainted panel will show with the seasonal movement of the wood. If you see exposed unpainted panel in both directions then the center panel was made of MDF or plywood and did not expand/contract at all while the rails and stiles did.
If you walk through the cabinet display at Lowes, Menards, or Home Depot, at various times of the year you will see exposed unpainted center panels on the painted doors. I never asked my unpainted cabinet customers how they handled those complaints. I’m about 90% retired now, and I have only two remaining customers, and they both buy painted from me, so they don’t encounter this issue. From the consumers’ perspective, it is a painting problem. From where I sit, it is a process issue. The center panel needs to be painted prior to assembly. I only paint the perimeter of the center panels prior to assembly and they I paint the entire door. I’m not sure my post offers any help in this issue. It would at least provide some understanding of the issue.
Yes it does, and informs in many ways, excellent post.
 

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I build cabinets and I paint the perimeter of the panel before I assemble. But normally that avenue is not available to painters.

Wood expands/contracts greater along the direction of the grain. So if you have a solid wood panel, it will expand and contract along the direction of the stiles (see illustration) and no unpainted panel will show.

However in the direction of the rails, the rail will expand more than the panel and some unpainted panel will show with the seasonal movement of the wood.

If you see exposed unpainted panel in both directions then the center panel was made of MDF or plywood and did not expand/contract at all while the rails and stiles did.


If you walk through the cabinet display at Lowes, Menards, or Home Depot, at various times of the year you will see exposed unpainted center panels on the painted doors.

I never asked my unpainted cabinet customers how they handled those complaints.

I’m about 90% retired now, and I have only two remaining customers, and they both buy painted from me, so they don’t encounter this issue.

From the consumers’ perspective, it is a painting problem. From where I sit, it is a process issue. The center panel needs to be painted prior to assembly. I only paint the perimeter of the center panels prior to assembly and they I paint the entire door.

I’m not sure my post offers any help in this issue. It would at least provide some understanding of the issue.
You might want to rethink…
Wood shrinkage “along” the grain aka “longitudinal” shrinkage is inconsequential and amounts to < .2% volumetric shrinkage vs tangential and/or radial shrinkage which can be as high as 12% based on species.

Image.jpeg
 

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In regards to paint, I would scrape and paint the line. Then explain to the customer that there is either a construction issue or basic expansion/contraction happening.

When i paint kitchen cabinets, my system is, 2 coats of Smart Prime, 2 coats of Benjamin Moore Advance, overnight dry time for each coat. The only prep work I do, is clean any cooking oil off cabinets around the stove and removal of knobs or handles. Cabinet doors (both sides), drawer faces and any outside facing surfaces gets 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of Advance. I do not paint inside cabinets at all. This is all done with a brush and 1/4 or 3/8 microfiber roller. This system competes with the removal of cabinet drawers and doors, with the shop spraying process. The brush and roll process holds up just as well as the shop spraying process also and is 1/4 the cost.
Yes the finishes are different, but when I am painting delaminating kitchen cabinets, or for customers who dislike the veneer wood color of their cabinets, they are very happy with the results and do not mind the brush lines. Btw for my customers who have hired furniture repair/restorers and paid $5000 for shop spray painting with Farrow and Ball paints....they still scratch and scrape around knobs and handles and have to be touched up, with a brush.

For kitchen islands in Matte Black, have used Scuff x. Also have painted entire kitchen cabinets and furniture with Scuff X in matte black, with good results and people happy with the results over time. With the matte black, sometimes one coat of smart prime is sufficient.

With BM Advance, I can be back at a customers house to paint a room(s) and spend an hour on the last day touching up Advance on previously painted kitchen cabinets and they look new again.
Customers have been very happy with the results !
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I use Campbell waterborne products all the time, including Arroyo. I am located in the Northeast as well. You definitely don't want to soak the doors when you clean them. This can potentially invite this issue. We do tons of cabinet jobs and have only had this happen on a few occasions. Generally, it was when the cabinets were done during warmer humid times and then ended up shrinking in the winter due to the dry heat. My warranty explains that this situation is not covered, but I usually do it once for free as a good will gesture anyways. The Arroyo is self sealing, so you can just touch it up with an artist brush. Once you touch it up once, it usually doesn't happen again because you have now colored the area that would be exposed. I don't think I've spent more than an hour on a job doing this, but the customer has always been greatly appreciative. Even though the Arroyo is self sealing, I still usually strip and prime first with Aquafi, which has stain blocking ability to it. Any real stubborn spots that bleed, I usually hit with a spray can of Problock. If the cabinets are in real good shape, you could potentially skip the primer. I have tested it without primer and it has great adhesion, just no stain blocking ability.
Hello, I didn't soak the cabinets, just washed them, they weren't that bad primed with bin, & 2 coats of Arroyo. came out fine, just the shifting of some panels, I told homeowner to get an artist brush & touch up.
The gal of Arroyo that i had to buy, because the owner lost the previous paint. But the new gal that i bought & sprayed the few doors came out a little rough, used an HVLP, Twice! Do you ever have a problem with that product?
Thanks
 

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Hello, I didn't soak the cabinets, just washed them, they weren't that bad primed with bin, & 2 coats of Arroyo. came out fine, just the shifting of some panels, I told homeowner to get an artist brush & touch up.
The gal of Arroyo that i had to buy, because the owner lost the previous paint. But the new gal that i bought & sprayed the few doors came out a little rough, used an HVLP, Twice! Do you ever have a problem with that product?
Thanks
Yes, I have had a problem with roughness when I first started using it. I use an airless for the doors and drawer fronts with an ultra-fine (red Titan) filter and that does the trick. I use HVLP for the boxes sometimes and we strain it into the cup with a 150-micron strainer, which is pretty fine. I have a post on here with pictures from a little while back showing the garbage my filter strained out. It was pretty awful.
 
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