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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Are you having flaking issues with the 3M plastic?? With precat and the w/b poly it flakes so bad, that I am back to paper.
If the 3M logo is on the front and not blowing air to the film you are good to go.i use AAA with not more than 10 pound air.
but you are right it flakes and does not live up to 3m standards.needs improvements.
 

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If the 3M logo is on the front and not blowing air to the film you are good to go.i use AAA with not more than 10 pound air.
but you are right it flakes and does not live up to 3m standards.needs improvements.
have you used any hvlp? Don't think I'll ever use AAA ever again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
have you used any hvlp? Don't think I'll ever use AAA ever again.
What ever you feel comfortable spraying and suits the job.Air Assisted Airless is industry standard in cabinetry finishing.It is kinda hvlp but faster and way more efficient as you may know.if i have few pieces i do not load the pump just use my iwata hvlp's.Also i rarely thin my paints.if i have thicker paint like acrylic or water base primers i mostly use graco airless or diaphragm pump.
i mean i like to use different rigs for different purposes to make the work easy and fast.
 

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What ever you feel comfortable spraying and suits the job.Air Assisted Airless is industry standard in cabinetry finishing.It is kinda hvlp but faster and way more efficient as you may know.if i have few pieces i do not load the pump just use my iwata hvlp's.Also i rarely thin my paints.if i have thicker paint like acrylic or water base primers i mostly use graco airless or diaphragm pump.
i mean i like to use different rigs for different purposes to make the work easy and fast.
Turbine HVLP with a pressure pot has really excellent transfer efficiency, AAA isn't even close really. I did a bunch of metal work with it a week ago went from spraying a wide fan almost like an airless then dialed down to less than 1" to spray spindles. pretty amazing really. basically no overspray there were places I was inches away from the surface and no dust on my mask after. Electrostatic is cool too, looking to get a rig for my self in the near future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Turbine HVLP with a pressure pot has really excellent transfer efficiency, AAA isn't even close really. I did a bunch of metal work with it a week ago went from spraying a wide fan almost like an airless then dialed down to less than 1" to spray spindles. pretty amazing really. basically no overspray there were places I was inches away from the surface and no dust on my mask after. Electrostatic is cool too, looking to get a rig for my self in the near future.
what brand turbine you have?i really hear good things about new generation Apollos.i have a fuji 5 stage i was using long before i switch to wagner and CA tech pumps.I love the ease of use turbine and also good TE they have.Now unfortunately it is decorating the cabinet:) if you are a casual finisher turbine is a good choice.Good luck.
 

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what brand turbine you have?i really hear good things about new generation Apollos.i have a fuji 5 stage i was using long before i switch to wagner and CA tech pumps.I love the ease of use turbine and also good TE they have.Now unfortunately it is decorating the cabinet:) if you are a casual finisher turbine is a good choice.Good luck.
I carry and use Apollo equipment, we have a precision 5 here for shop and onsite use. Fuji is junk I took one apart one time for a customer. Looked like someone went down to the hardware store and grabbed some off the shelf PVC and open cell foam, open yours up if you fancy being underwhelmed. Apollos have automotive filters so you don't find dust in your finish, among other features.
The apollo gun is really great too, only gun I've really been able to completely dial in. I sold my capspray 115 and 2 graco edge guns for $150. Good riddance!

Here is louis spraying unthinned renner with a 1.8mm and C-HS cap
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm also not a big fan of spraying against plastic. Flops around too much and flakes when your taking it off..
That is right.it definitely flakes when you are taking it off but when you are taking it off:) if you use turbine or hvlp or blow air to the film or if you mask very close to the edge of the frame you are in trouble.
Look to the photo i sent.the film is almost 3 inches inside and like i said i use Air assisted airless.atomizing air is less than 10 pounds.between 8-10 psi :). That air moves nothing even a single piece of dust.
Do not forget about the 2 decades experience in this business.That probably helps for something
oh by the way please look to the last photo.that was the last run and there is almost 5 mils of dry paint on that film.do you see any flake?
 

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That is right.it definitely flakes when you are taking it off but when you are taking it off:) if you use turbine or hvlp or blow air to the film or if you mask very close to the edge of the frame you are in trouble.
Look to the photo i sent.the film is almost 3 inches inside and like i said i use Air assisted airless.atomizing air is less than 10 pounds.between 8-10 psi :). That air moves nothing even a single piece of dust.
Do not forget about the 2 decades experience in this business.That probably helps for something
oh by the way please look to the last photo.that was the last run and there is almost 5 mils of dry paint on that film.do you see any flake?
That's great that it works for you. If it ain't broke don't fix it right. Kudo's. Your work looks fantastic.. but just remember, there are as many members on this forum as there are opinions. No one is doubting you. ;) Thanks for sharing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That's great that it works for you. If it ain't broke don't fix it right. Kudo's. Your work looks fantastic.. but just remember, there are as many members on this forum as there are opinions. No one is doubting you. ;) Thanks for sharing.
Thank you Sir !
 

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This looks super clean! 30 sheen? What numbers such project /quality commands in your area?
Why use SW vinyl primer? I also use air evacuation pipe on site great idea. No mask, no overspray, no moisture . Using aaa airmix for tops and diaphragm pump for primers. Use Sirka 2k primer sands like heaven.....Milesi and sometimes Sirca,for top coat.
Sometimes, use Green light coatings 2007 primer WB. Dries to sand in 30 min.
Any pictures ones posts will never really show much unfortunately....I also do not ever have any flaking issues with 3m films or other brands.
Same 20 years experience here as well...
How do you approach oak cabinets refinishing. I do achieve flawless class A surface finish. But so far was not being able to achieve long term surface stability without using oil Alkyd undercoat. Thinking about trying a UV cured base coat. Because alkyd takes too long to dry in order to be sanded easily. Do you know one that dries fast and sands well? Vinyl may be too soft to hold long grain oak fibers movement longterm. Not sure...
Trying to eliminate oil phase out completely but alas, looks like other films too porous or permeable
I have tons of calls here for late 80s early 90s oak cabinets refinish. No magic bullet though....
Very time consuming and sometimes hard for people to understand why it cost so much.
Sincerely
Singular.
 

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This looks super clean! 30 sheen? What numbers such project /quality commands in your area?
Why use SW vinyl primer? I also use air evacuation pipe on site great idea. No mask, no overspray, no moisture . Using aaa airmix for tops and diaphragm pump for primers. Use Sirka 2k primer sands like heaven.....Milesi and sometimes Sirca,for top coat.
Sometimes, use Green light coatings 2007 primer WB. Dries to sand in 30 min.
Any pictures ones posts will never really show much unfortunately....I also do not ever have any flaking issues with 3m films or other brands.
Same 20 years experience here as well...
How do you approach oak cabinets refinishing. I do achieve flawless class A surface finish. But so far was not being able to achieve long term surface stability without using oil Alkyd undercoat. Thinking about trying a UV cured base coat. Because alkyd takes too long to dry in order to be sanded easily. Do you know one that dries fast and sands well? Vinyl may be too soft to hold long grain oak fibers movement longterm. Not sure...
Trying to eliminate oil phase out completely but alas, looks like other films too porous or permeable
I have tons of calls here for late 80s early 90s oak cabinets refinish. No magic bullet though....
Very time consuming and sometimes hard for people to understand why it cost so much.
Sincerely
Singular.
Although I haven’t used it in decades, we used to use a high build polyester primer/surfacer called Feather Fill by EverCoat for grain filling & leveling in order to achieve flawless class A finishes…
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This looks super clean! 30 sheen? What numbers such project /quality commands in your area?
Why use SW vinyl primer? I also use air evacuation pipe on site great idea. No mask, no overspray, no moisture . Using aaa airmix for tops and diaphragm pump for primers. Use Sirka 2k primer sands like heaven.....Milesi and sometimes Sirca,for top coat.
Sometimes, use Green light coatings 2007 primer WB. Dries to sand in 30 min.
Any pictures ones posts will never really show much unfortunately....I also do not ever have any flaking issues with 3m films or other brands.
Same 20 years experience here as well...
How do you approach oak cabinets refinishing. I do achieve flawless class A surface finish. But so far was not being able to achieve long term surface stability without using oil Alkyd undercoat. Thinking about trying a UV cured base coat. Because alkyd takes too long to dry in order to be sanded easily. Do you know one that dries fast and sands well? Vinyl may be too soft to hold long grain oak fibers movement longterm. Not sure...
Trying to eliminate oil phase out completely but alas, looks like other films too porous or permeable
I have tons of calls here for late 80s early 90s oak cabinets refinish. No magic bullet though....
Very time consuming and sometimes hard for people to understand why it cost so much.
Sincerely
Singular.
Thank you !
20 degrees Satin. Without a exhaust fan it will be nightmare to spray inside for sure :)
3m plastic films are great for my purpose.i use all the time.Trimaco masking paper and 3m plastic films are my main masking products.
we have a similar equipment.Did purchase a WAGNER COBRA for spraying water base 2k products.it is a diaphragm pump.I also use CATECH for solvents.Way to go for professional use.i love them for sure.
Not all the sealers or finishes are the same.they all have different formulas and resin mixtures inside.Many ppl think that all the precat lacquer or the vinyl sealers are the same. NO they are not.
SW precat lacquers have the top shelf resin inside.Did not see any yellowing or failure after 5 years and going strong.
Waterbase especially 2 k european poly's are way to go for wood finishing.they handle abuse and water issue well.no voc and regulations like the solvent.there is still voc but not much like solvents.
Since i am a cabinet maker not a finisher i have the luxury to offer ppl reasonable priced brand new door or drawer fronts.
i sprayed tons of oak cabinets cases but not a single original oak door.did always replace them with paint grade doors and drawer fronts .just sprayed the cases.if they insist to use the original doors i basically just walk away.
Oak suppose to be stained and clear coated.if they want a paint grade solid color cabinetry oak is not one of them.
ones you replace the doors face frames are easy to fill.i basically use Evercoat Rage gold filler to fill scratches and pores left over from previously sprayed lacquer.Slurry mixture of filler with a brush makes the job faster and easier.

Good luck.
ohh by the way Turk here.Nice to meet you.
 
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