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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone,

I recently purchased a 115 and just completed my first kitchen cabinet job with it. It would be SO helpful to know the various coatings and settings others use to get the best results. For example, I sprayed B-M Fresh Start primer and B-M Advance. I'm using an Elite gun and this is what I ended up with:

Primer (no thinning): Air 100% and 12 fluid 'clicks' with a #4 projector gave me a perfectly smooth primer finish.

Advance Satin (thinned 3.5%): Air 100%, 12 clicks, #4 projector and I had some orange peel. While the client loved it, I didn't. I want a glass finish, so the orange peel bummed me out. Tried a #3 projector, but it had a few bubbles on all the drawers I tried it on, so I had to sand and recoat.

A problem for me was that I could only find 2 gallons of paint in Atlanta. I was stunned that nobody had the base to mix my color. I didn't want to run out of paint, so it limited my experimentation. As it was, I used almost the entire 2 gallons (couldn't have coated the 40 doors and 16 drawers again).

Anyway, I thought we might be able to help each other with this kind of info. I'm definitely switching to the 3M PPS 2.0 for the next job. I know people hate on the Elite gun, but I had no problems with it until I turned it sideways to spray baseboard under the cabs, then I got paint running up to the check valve. Not a big deal, I just brushed the top of the base molding, but the 3M should fix that.

Happy painting! - LIA
 

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You need to thin your material more like 20-30% and yes use the PPS cups or a remote pot of possible.
Don't focus on the 'settings' too much with HVLP; its different for every material and just something you have to feel for when its correct. When setting up HVLP start with air maxed out and fluid at 0. Slowly bringing up fluid until your happy with the amount of fluid. Then adjust air from the turbine not the gun. The Apollo 7700 gun is much easier to spray with fyi




I would also suggest you switch to using 1k/2k urethane.
Renner, centurion, melisi, enviorlak etc.
 

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I agree with @cocomonkeynuts that there are too many variables to try and create any sort of standards, but it sounds like you have some good direction as far as where to start with projector sizes as well as air & fluid settings. Ultimately, you're altering viscosity until it's acceptable, and since viscosity is directly proportional to the temperature of the product you're applying, you might consider keeping record of that if you decide to continue recording your settings & results. I have pressure gauges on a few of my rigs and I very rarely even read them. I'm just going for the lowest possible pressure while still getting good atomization and an even spray pattern.
 

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I agree with @cocomonkeynuts that there are too many variables to try and create any sort of standards, but it sounds like you have some good direction as far as where to start with projector sizes as well as air & fluid settings. Ultimately, you're altering viscosity until it's acceptable, and since viscosity is directly proportional to the temperature of the product you're applying, you might consider keeping record of that if you decide to continue recording your settings & results. I have pressure gauges on a few of my rigs and I very rarely even read them. I'm just going for the lowest possible pressure while still getting good atomization and an even spray pattern.
yes for pressure gauge I only use them as a sanity check to make sure the machine is functioning properly. I like analog gauge especially because it will show pressure even when machine is unplugged. The actual working PSI is irrelevant as you just want the minimum pressure to get a good pattern.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I agree with @cocomonkeynuts that there are too many variables to try and create any sort of standards, but it sounds like you have some good direction as far as where to start with projector sizes as well as air & fluid settings. Ultimately, you're altering viscosity until it's acceptable, and since viscosity is directly proportional to the temperature of the product you're applying, you might consider keeping record of that if you decide to continue recording your settings & results. I have pressure gauges on a few of my rigs and I very rarely even read them. I'm just going for the lowest possible pressure while still getting good atomization and an even spray pattern.
I should've been more clear. I'm not new to spraying, either HVLP or airless, but turbines are new to me, specifically the 115 that I just purchased. I used to do more cabinet work than I do now, but it's an area my clients have shown interest in lately, so I've decided to offer the service again.

While I agree that product temperature plays a role in viscosity, most repaints (or unfinished cabs, for that matey) are going to be done with newly purchased paint that's likely stored at room temperature. My post was intended to get information from other users of the same system as opposed to general 411 about HVLPs. For example, the first respondent mentioned controlling air pressure at the turbine. He doesn't have as 115 or he would know that one either works with a 3 stage system or a 6 stage system with the 115. There are no other controls at the turbine. Same with gun recommendations. I've heard great things about the 7700, but that's not what I have, so while suggesting the gun as a better alternative to the Elite is appreciated, it wasn't the intention of this thread.

There is no cabinet paint product I've ever encountered that would require 20-30% thinning unless someone was trying to shoot it through a 3 stage or less turbine.. If I came across such a product, I wouldn't use it. That was the point of buying the 115.

Maybe there just aren't enough users of the specific equipment I was hoping to compile a list of settings for. That's cool. Had I had an extra gallon of paint, I'd have experimented more with a Ford cup (or just messing with viscosity in general), but I knew it was going to be close and didn't want to be in a bad position, unable to procure more product.

Thanks for your input.
 

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I should've been more clear. I'm not new to spraying, either HVLP or airless, but turbines are new to me, specifically the 115 that I just purchased. I used to do more cabinet work than I do now, but it's an area my clients have shown interest in lately, so I've decided to offer the service again.

While I agree that product temperature plays a role in viscosity, most repaints (or unfinished cabs, for that matey) are going to be done with newly purchased paint that's likely stored at room temperature. My post was intended to get information from other users of the same system as opposed to general 411 about HVLPs. For example, the first respondent mentioned controlling air pressure at the turbine. He doesn't have as 115 or he would know that one either works with a 3 stage system or a 6 stage system with the 115. There are no other controls at the turbine. Same with gun recommendations. I've heard great things about the 7700, but that's not what I have, so while suggesting the gun as a better alternative to the Elite is appreciated, it wasn't the intention of this thread.

There is no cabinet paint product I've ever encountered that would require 20-30% thinning unless someone was trying to shoot it through a 3 stage or less turbine.. If I came across such a product, I wouldn't use it. That was the point of buying the 115.

Maybe there just aren't enough users of the specific equipment I was hoping to compile a list of settings for. That's cool. Had I had an extra gallon of paint, I'd have experimented more with a Ford cup (or just messing with viscosity in general), but I knew it was going to be close and didn't want to be in a bad position, unable to procure more product.

Thanks for your input.
I have owned a 115 and promptly sold it for $200 years ago. Have also owned graco, apollo, SATA turbines and guns. Just forgot the capspray is chinese garbage and doesn't have a potentiometer to control turbine speed.

Just going to say this nicely once: Despite manufacturer claims that the 115 can push unthinned paint grade materials you do need to thin your paint, these turbine units quite frankly don't have enough air to properly atomize unthinned product. Sorry if someone sold you a expensive machine based on false claims. Thin your material and it will 'magically' flow out. If you put a paint stick in it should flow off the stick where individual drops are about 1 second apart. You can get away with less thinning using a pressure pot to feed the material or using a fluid heater. Many professional cabinet grade products, like centurion, are ready to spray viscosity from the can and require generally no thinning.

BTW as I alluded to above, ford and other viscosity cups are a waste of time. Just use a paint stick and learn to feel the viscosity. If you are getting orange peel you need MORE AIR or thinner material.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have owned a 115 and promptly sold it for $200 years ago. Have also owned graco, apollo SATA turbines and guns. Just forgot the capspray is chinese garbage and doesn't have a potentiometer to control turbine speed.

Just going to say this nicely once: Despite manufacturer claims that the 115 can push unthinned paint grade materials you do need to thin your paint, these turbine units quite frankly don't have enough air to properly atomize unthinned product. Sorry if someone sold you a expensive machine based on false claims. Thin your material and it will 'magically' flow out. If you put a paint stick in it should flow off the stick where individual drops are about 1 second apart. You can get away with less thinning using a pressure pot to feed the material or using a fluid heater
As I said, I sprayed unthinned acrylic primer flawlessly. You said, '...thin paint 20-30%'. I didn't say that I believed paint should be able to be sprayed unthinned. 20-30% is ridiculous. I'm positive I can thin Advance 10% or less with the equipment I have and spray glass. As it was, I thinned less than 5% and got very slight orange peel, but again, I didn't have enough product to experiment. The base required for my client's color is simply unavailable in Atlanta.

If you sold a system that retails for $2k for $200, I don't know what to say. If you believe that lacking a potentiometer is a deal killer for you, there are many systems available that will fit your needs. It was unimportant to me before I made my purchase and it's unimportant to me now. Nobody sold me on a feature set: I did my research and purchased what I believe is best for me.

Again, I didn't start this thread for general HVLP advice, but I appreciate your input.
 

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As I said, I sprayed unthinned acrylic primer flawlessly. You said, '...thin paint 20-30%'. I didn't say that I believed paint should be able to be sprayed unthinned. 20-30% is ridiculous. I'm positive I can thin Advance 10% or less with the equipment I have and spray glass. As it was, I thinned less than 5% and got very slight orange peel, but again, I didn't have enough product to experiment. The base required for my client's color is simply unavailable in Atlanta.

If you sold a system that retails for $2k for $200, I don't know what to say. If you believe that lacking a potentiometer is a deal killer for you, there are many systems available that will fit your needs. It was unimportant to me before I made my purchase and it's unimportant to me now. Nobody sold me on a feature set: I did my research and purchased what I believe is best for me.

Again, I didn't start this thread for general HVLP advice, but I appreciate your input.
Like are you aware all of these turbines are made in the same factory in mexico? The only real difference between them is the build quality of the box, quality of the filters and the addition of a potentiometer. Apollo and graco also have an auto off/start that is useful. The guns function almost all the same with minor differences.

If you can thin advance 10% and shoot it with a 1.8mm and get good results than good on ya. 10% 20% 30% doesn't really matter. I NEVER measure my paint viscosity on a job, just thin it until it sprays good dude.

BTW the resin for advance is in short supply nationwide, its not just Atlanta. Take the opportunity to explore some better materials like renner or centurion

I sold that system for $200 as it was given to me for FREE from another painter who used it once then upgraded to a graco 9.5.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Like are you aware all of these turbines are made in the same factory in mexico? The only real difference between them is the build quality of the box, quality of the filters and the addition of a potentiometer. Apollo and graco also have an auto off/start that is useful

If you can thin advance 10% and shoot it with a 1.8mm and get good results than good on ya. 10% 20% 30% doesn't really matter. I NEVER measure my paint viscosity on a job, just thin it until it sprays good dude.

BTW the resin for advance is in short supply nationwide, its not just Atlanta. Take the opportunity to explore some better materials like renner or centurion

I sold that system for $200 as it was given to me for FREE from another painter who used it once then upgraded to a graco 9.5.
Honestly, I don't know why you keep weighing in. If you don't have a 115 and an Elite gun, this thread wasn't intended for you. I don't need anyone educating me on where equipment is made or what products to use. My client chose the paint. It's what they wanted. They couldn't be more satisfied and their $4,800 is already in my bank account.

If someone gave me something for free and I decided to sell it, I would still get market value. I'm sure your buyer appreciated your generosity.

Please, bow out. I promise I'll seek your professional opinion when and if the need arises. You seem to possess a wealth of information. It's just not valuable in this thread.

Best - LIA
 

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Honestly, I don't know why you keep weighing in. If you don't have a 115 and an Elite gun, this thread wasn't intended for you. I don't need anyone educating me on where equipment is made or what products to use. My client chose the paint. It's what they wanted. They couldn't be more satisfied and their $4,800 is already in my bank account.

If someone gave me something for free and I decided to sell it, I would still get market value. I'm sure your buyer appreciated your generosity.

Please, bow out. I promise I'll seek your professional opinion when and if the need arises. You seem to possess a wealth of information. It's just not valuable in this thread.

Best - LIA
I just gave you complete information on where the orange peel comes from and how to fix it but yeah its not valuable at all. :whistle:
Your 115 doesn't have enough air to atomize. Thin your paint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I just gave you complete information on where the orange peel comes from and how to fix it but yeah its not valuable at all. :whistle:
Your 115 doesn't have enough air to atomize. Thin your paint.
1. I know where orange peel 'comes from'. You didn't educate me.

2. Instead of being so caught up in your personal bastion of knowledge, perhaps you should stop and read the intent of this thread as it was presented from the jump. You've added exactly zero value to this discussion.

3. This is why, at 61, I stay away from forums. There's always someone who thinks they know best and they're prepared to take a discussion in whatever direction they please to try and demonstrate their wealth of knowledge without regard to the information attempting to be solicited.

4. The only thing I've learned from you is that you're willing to take a barely used piece of equipment - according to you - and discount it heavily because.....well, who knows why. Doesn't seem very smart to me, but maybe you're just a nice guy. I'm not that nice, so I have no problem asking you once again to take your opinions to a thread where others will find them valuable. This isn't one of them.
 

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1. I know where orange peel 'comes from'. You didn't educate me.

2. Instead of being so caught up in your personal bastion of knowledge, perhaps you should stop and read the intent of this thread as it was presented from the jump. You've added exactly zero value to this discussion.

3. This is why, at 61, I stay away from forums. There's always someone who thinks they know best and they're prepared to take a discussion in whatever direction they please to try and demonstrate their wealth of knowledge without regard to the information attempting to be solicited.

4. The only thing I've learned from you is that you're willing to take a barely used piece of equipment - according to you - and discount it heavily because.....well, who knows why. Doesn't seem very smart to me, but maybe you're just a nice guy. I'm not that nice, so I have no problem asking you once again to take your opinions to a thread where others will find them valuable. This isn't one of them.
Seems like you expect your paint to magically just start working so good luck to you!
 

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3. This is why, at 61, I stay away from forums. There's always someone who thinks they know best and they're prepared to take a discussion in whatever direction they please to try and demonstrate their wealth of knowledge without regard to the information attempting to be solicited.
Thinning paint is literally the first thing I was taught when I picked up a HVLP. Bewilders me as to why you continue to bang your head against a wall when the answer is right in front of you.
 

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I should've been more clear. I'm not new to spraying, either HVLP or airless, but turbines are new to me, specifically the 115 that I just purchased. I used to do more cabinet work than I do now, but it's an area my clients have shown interest in lately, so I've decided to offer the service again.

While I agree that product temperature plays a role in viscosity, most repaints (or unfinished cabs, for that matey) are going to be done with newly purchased paint that's likely stored at room temperature. My post was intended to get information from other users of the same system as opposed to general 411 about HVLPs. For example, the first respondent mentioned controlling air pressure at the turbine. He doesn't have as 115 or he would know that one either works with a 3 stage system or a 6 stage system with the 115. There are no other controls at the turbine. Same with gun recommendations. I've heard great things about the 7700, but that's not what I have, so while suggesting the gun as a better alternative to the Elite is appreciated, it wasn't the intention of this thread.

There is no cabinet paint product I've ever encountered that would require 20-30% thinning unless someone was trying to shoot it through a 3 stage or less turbine.. If I came across such a product, I wouldn't use it. That was the point of buying the 115.

Maybe there just aren't enough users of t,he specific° equipment I was hoping to compile a list of settings for. That's cool. Had I had an extra gallon of paint, I'd have experimented more with a Ford cup (or just messing with viscosity in general), but I knew it was going to be close and didn't want to be in a bad position, unable to procure more product.

Thanks for your input.
I've had the 115 with Elite gun for about 18 years. While I rarely use them for anything other than spraying Tile Clad for tubs & sinks now, I'm still well versed on how they behave. I'm not sure you appreciate just how much fluctuation there is in viscosity given a particular paint temperature, and nowhere is it more important than spraying with turbines. For every degree above 70° F, it's approximately the equivalent of thinning 1%, so your generalization of "room temperature" could mean 60°-75°, which could muddy your stats by at least 5%, so it's a pretty big deal. If I'm keeping record of my thinning % and I can't be certain whether I really thinned 4% vs. 9%, then I haven't extracted any useful data. The length of your hose matters too. Longer hose cools the product more so less hot air is being used for atomizing air. If you have a 3' whip attached to your 15' hose, that has to be accounted for. I actually use 30' of hose to cool the product even more in order to prevent dry spray. Relative humidity also would be something which would need to be considered. Like I said, way too many variables to try and create a database for reference without taking all the major factors into consideration, which is why it's much more important to at least have a solid foundation to start from and tweak settings as needed vs. trying to rely on a database of past experiences which may or may not be applicable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thinning paint is literally the first thing I was taught when I picked up a HVLP. Bewilders me as to why you continue to bang your head against a wall when the answer is right in front of you.
Once again, your ego or lack of mental acuity or inability to read has struck you. I'm not banging my head against anything. My first post said that I thinned the Advance. The question wasn't whether to thin it. The question was VERY SPECIFICALLY this:

IF you're using a 115 (you aren't) and IF you're using an Elite gun (you aren't) and IF you're spraying Advance (you aren't), how do you set up your product and rig?. Since you're so very clearly obtuse, the idea was to build a database of settings for people using 115's and Elite or other guns for various productS to help others with the same equipment, once again NOT YOU.

NONE OF THIS APPLES TO YOU. MOVE ON.

JFC,,,,,,,
 

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If your spraying Advance, just use an airless dude. HVLP is a waste of time with products like that. If your're going that route, switching products is the best advice you can get. HVLP's weren't really designed to spray latex. You can do it, but it's painful. You can also get a car to drive with 3 tires, but it's not easy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
If your spraying Advance, just use an airless dude. HVLP is a waste of time with products like that. If your're going that route, switching products is the best advice you can get. HVLP's weren't really designed to spray latex. You can do it, but it's painful. You can also get a car to drive with 3 tires, but it's not easy.
Thanks, dude. See my replies to the other guy who had no helpful advice and ignored the OP.
 

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Thanks, dude. See my replies to the other guy who had no helpful advice and ignored the OP.
You can take or leave all the advice given to you. I could care less. But it's like asking around for advice on a good summer tire to get you through a snow storm. Just buy a set of winter tires so you're prepared for every season. I've probably sprayed about 1000 gallons of Advance in the last few years, almost all with just an airless rig. Not only is 5 times faster than an hvlp, there is absolutely no thinning required. But hey, Best of luck to you.
 
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