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Discussion Starter #1
Was driving my boy back from a doctors visit. As we were discussing what the doctor had told us, I saw this :eek: and I was like OMG, I slammed on my brakes (not really) flipped around to get up closer. This my friends was a opportunity i could not pass up. So i started snapping pics, popping the bubbles. my son was like WTF, are you nuts dad. I then started going into details about elasto and what went wrong here, started explaining how some painters think they can apply eggshells, flats, etc over elsto, "Do you think a flat or enamel has the elongation that elasto has?" He was getting into it man, and was in the zone. A father and son moment, it was great, humorous and thankful it was not my job :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Stop in and talk to them and pick up the job so that it is done right. ;)
That's what my boy told me. I actually watched the painting of this building 2 time. It's a little over a year out from the last (elasto). I knew when they were painting the elasto, it wasn't a good idea just from the structure. It was newly remodeled with a regular acrylic paint. Cracks were appearing and they were painting it with elasto a year later. Within the 1st six months it was already failing. And now you see the results. So it being a band aid of other issues, hoping it would be a miracle paint, paying probably about 8 to 10k on the elasto paint alone. I'm not sure they will be ready to pay a bill that will most likely double to fix. Sad when a painter doesn't know wtf he or she is doing with elasto, or any paint.

Boys and girls, learn it from this thread. Know what your paints are for, what they are compatible with, and if the substrate is a good fit. Would you want to be called back on this deal? Maybe you thought it was the right thing, or your a hot shot, maybe you just needed to pay some bills, keep your guys busy. At the end, if you don't know what the phuck your doing. You'll lose.
 

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PinheadsUnite
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Ya know, some designers woulda paid good money for that affect :whistling2:
 
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That's what my boy told me. I actually watched the painting of this building 2 time. It's a little over a year out from the last (elasto). I knew when they were painting the elasto, it wasn't a good idea just from the structure. It was newly remodeled with a regular acrylic paint. Cracks were appearing and they were painting it with elasto a year later. Within the 1st six months it was already failing. And now you see the results. So it being a band aid of other issues, hoping it would be a miracle paint, paying probably about 8 to 10k on the elasto paint alone. I'm not sure they will be ready to pay a bill that will most likely double to fix. Sad when a painter doesn't know wtf he or she is doing with elasto, or any paint.

Boys and girls, learn it from this thread. Know what your paints are for, what they are compatible with, and if the substrate is a good fit. Would you want to be called back on this deal? Maybe you thought it was the right thing, or your a hot shot, maybe you just needed to pay some bills, keep your guys busy. At the end, if you don't know what the phuck your doing. You'll lose.
Hey, regardless of you think,,, it wasn't me,,,, okay"""
 

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Hey Ewing. How about making this a teachable moment for all of us who do not see much elasto.

I then started going into details about elasto and what went wrong here, started explaining how some painters think they can apply eggshells, flats, etc over elsto, "Do you think a flat or enamel has the elongation that elasto has?"
In post 1, you seem to indicate the problem is a house paint over top of an elasto paint. I remember reading on this site that elasto should be painted over with a regular house paint because elasto has too much dirt pick-up (not saying I agree, just remember reading it here).

That's what my boy told me. I actually watched the painting of this building 2 time. It's a little over a year out from the last (elasto). I knew when they were painting the elasto, it wasn't a good idea just from the structure. It was newly remodeled with a regular acrylic paint. Cracks were appearing and they were painting it with elasto a year later.
In post 6 you seem to indicate that it is an elasto over a regular acrylic paint that is causing the problem. So which one is it? Sounds and looks like the last coat is elasto as in stated in post 6.

What would have made you not use elasto on this building? The previous coatings, exposure, building design, etc?

It seems like you have more knowledge in this area than many and would love to read some more info on your thought process for when a building gets elasto or not.
 

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There are many reasons why elasto does this, it's very common around here. In fact a good exterior house paint will do the same on smooth cedar siding, but the bags tend to break before they get as big.
 

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I have seen water bubbles before, but nothing that bad. We had an interesting job with smooth cedar, rough side in, aluminum faced foam under the side that had moisture condense on the Al and wick through the siding on areas that had direct sunlight only.

Water bubble the size of those would make me sick.
 

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Maybe they got what they paid for. You know how it is Gabe, the HO or owner of the bldg "researches" on his own and tells the painter what to use. If that's the case he should've walked. Either way - he wasn't much of a Pro was he?

Funny, I've stopped and looked at bad jobs/results myself more than a few times. Like slowing down and gawking at an accident. Did you get the urge to bust a bubble or two and start pulling on the loose coating to see how much would peel off? LOL.

Happy New Year Gabe! Hope it is successful for you and you continue to be a great family man.
 

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I like you "getting in the zone" with your son about painting. :thumbsup:

Teach me something here....what's the solution to this?

Where is the original failure? Why? Would a proper primer between coats prevented it?

Failures really interest me, but I'm not sure I understand what happened here and why it failed?
 

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I agree. I'd like to hear more about this as well..especially the steps the last guy should have taken to prevent this - whether it's priming etc...

Also, what happens now? Obviously this stuff is going to be peeled back to the elasto, but what then?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
TJ, your a riot :lol:

I told ya I would so here ya go.


Why I wouldn't use elasto in the 1st place?

In order for elasto to work without failures the elasto needs to be completely wrapped, with no openings exposed. Elasto caulking should be applied around window, doors, flashing, wood/eaves and any other openings. The structure needs to be fit as well. Which I don't think this structure is with one exception. If you look on the 1st pic you will see a decorative foam fascia/trim/pop out what ever you want to call it. I'm not sure if the east coast see's this type of trim. But it is very popular here in southern Calif. It is a faux stone foam trim, it can be installed around windows, fascia, columns, etc. Its a very porous material, its also a raw substrate like stucco it can be exposed. This making it a opening along where it is installed. This is where water can intrude. It is possible to seal this foam, but you would be covering the faux stone look. However I would have to inspect further for other potential moisture intrusions to be sure elasto would work. I would look for structure defects, how big the gaps in the cracks, why the cracks are appearing, where there appering, where water would settle, etc.


Cany you paint elasto over a non-elasto paint?

Yes, as long as the surface is preped right. Priming is highly recomended.


Can you paint over elasto with a non-elasto coating?

No, it's highly not recommended
The coatings are incompatibility between paints they have different degrees of elasticity and cohesion. It is possible to repaint over with a 100% acrylic with a few exceptions. The elasiticty needs to have expired, in other words when it has no more elasiticty, this usually takes 5 to 6 yrs, sometimes up to 10 yrs. You would need to do a dry prep like scuff and dust, no water, this could trap unseen water behind the elasto. You would need to prime with a primer with great adhesion (top of the line). Before doing any project like this you should always experiment 1st with the primer, preforming a scrub test.


In this case the tilt up wall. While elasto's can seal out moisture, it can also trap it in. The water is most likely trapped between the elasto and the prime/existing coating. This coating is most likely the full blown elatso with a low pem rating. This elasto will not allow any moisture to escape. As you see in the pics, creating bubbles. The elasto is actually doing its job. It's water-resistant and expanding. In this case the water is on the wrong side. The water is coming from the top traveling down the wall (trying to escape). Creating bubbles. Believe it or not once the water escapes the elasto will contract back and lay back down. As if it never happened. With a hybrid elasto acrylic coating such s SW Loxon. Water would be able to escape due to its high perm rating (breathability), but with the amount of water that is being traped on this builing. I believe that would fail too


The cure

It would not be recommended to apply a non-elasto coating over a elasto coating, because the elasticity has not expired. The non-elasto can not handle the expansion and contractions over the elasto. Elastos can have up to 400 elongation. Simply a elongation a non-elasto can't handle. It can result in cracking and a cohesion failure. The best cure would be to remove the elasto (sand blast) get it back to the raw substrate. But we all know that could be a expensive cure.


A non warranty cure

Cut out affected areas, prime, patch where needed, oil base prime to seal all pin holes, apply 100% acrylic paint. then watch it for the next 5 years. There will be other effected areas that will resurface on. The 1st year it can be as soon as a week, weekly to monthly to yearly to none at all. The key is to fix it as soon as it appears. On this building I would highly recommend to seal the faux stone foam. The cost would not be cheap, specially with the maintenece plan.

Gabe Ewing
Ewing Painting Inc
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Also, if and when you apply elasto. Its very important to school your client. Warning them that any openings created like nicks, gouges or screw holes, needs to be repaired as soon as possible. There's enough info in this thread and Nathans thread to help you on a elasto project.
 
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