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Rock On
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From Heidi Baker of BeJane.com (woman's home improvement site)

Mix a nontoxic ceramic powder into your paint to reduce the amount of heat passing through your walls to the outside

"The ceramic particles in the additive create a radiant barrier that reflects heat back into the room...and once you put it on, the walls are insulated for good"

Whaaaaa?
 

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Epoxy Dude
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I saw this somewhere today as well...

The truth is... if you can add enough ceramic microspheres... AND... then put the coating on thick enough... You may get SOME benefit...

However... I can't see a time when a homeowner or other residential use will be able to acheive an meaningful amount of insulatory value...

:no:
 

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FT painter/FT dad
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insulatory

this is officially my favorite word as of now :notworthy:
 

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Rock On
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I can't believe how much these DIY/HI sites/shows push crap they find/hear like it's fact
Now I'm going to get requests for this garbage

Ah well...
Thanks for the input...and the Word Of The Day
 

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The "Never Paint Again" guys that were around me in Florida used ceramic paint and this was one of their big sales pushes... that the homeowner would actually save money by using their product. It made my stomach turn.

The fact is that they typically charged anywhere from 3 to 10 times the amount I charged for the same paint job just because of this never paint again ceramic paint.
 

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Rock On
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The "Never Paint Again" guys that were around me in Florida used ceramic paint and this was one of their big sales pushes...
Ahhh...those guys that seem to be folding up and skipping town?
Makes sense

This Q has popped up on the DIY forums this week

The power of the press...dang....
I'll bet they are giggling like little schoolgirls at the additive factory
 

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Hi All,

Yeah, I agree the slick sales sharks with the "never paint again" crap have given ceramics a bad name. However, taken only on its scientific premise, the insulation characteristic is something we shouldn't ignore.

Ceramic micro-particles do seem to impart more durability and scratch resistance to paints. I've studied this subject with fascination and here are some of my findings:

a) There are solid ceramic particles that help mostly with durability.

b) Hollow or evacuated ceramic micro-spheres help the most with creating a heat shield. The evacuated ceramic micro particles have a vacuum at their core, and since heat can't travel through a vacuum, it stands to reason these ceramics would give heat less of a path.

A further study of all these ceramics is something I intend to partake of. I invite all interested to contribute. There are benefits to our environment, and we would also be able to sell energy conservation to our clients. Furthermore, the homeowners that would go for this would also pay better.

I've read studies promoted by some of the folks selling these products and don't know how much of it is slick marketing. I would love to take an area and paint it with before/after temperature readings.

The government gives tax credits to businesses that meet certain ASHRAE (American Society of Heating, Refrigerating, and Air-Conditioning Engineers) qualifications. A generous tax credit per square foot is a very good reason to invest in new technology. If ASHRAE allows for these money-saving qualifications....why not for the painting industry, if we could prove there are substantial energy savings from using ceramics?

Imagine this: Your clients would dearly welcome this type of paint job, while the government issues them tax credits AND they also save on energy ---> win/win/win !!!

On a closing note: I don't think present regulations apply to paint coatings as an ASHRAE qualifier. However, the paint industry is quite big and I could see a serious effort to ask for inclusion. Furthermore, the time is right for this technology - and if does what it claims - it couldn't be "greener."
 

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Epoxy Dude
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Hi wannabe,

I've done work in this area for over a decade. The 'testing' aspect can be the difficult part. I'll try to help you with some direction for yours...

I've read studies promoted by some of the folks selling these products and don't know how much of it is slick marketing. I would love to take an area and paint it with before/after temperature readings.
This approach will not really give you the answers you are looking for. First, what you really care about is the insulatory value. Taking before and after temperatures would be more likely to give you the IR reflective difference. In the past, I have taken those 'insulative coatings' and coated paint cans, pots, and beakers (you've got to make sure the paint is applied evenly and as thick as the manufacturer recommends). Paint at least 3 'beakers' and have at least 3 unpainted 'beakers' (all beakers must be identical). Fill a large container with ice water. Fill all 6 'beakers with boiling water (from the same pot... identical amounts). Have a temp guage in each beaker. Place all 6 beakers in the ice water and track the time and temperature to graph. Repeat the test with the exception of switching the ice water & hot water (it's harder to place the beakers in boiling water so you just have to settle for hot).

If the coating truly has insulative properties it will hold the temperature in the coated beaker longer than than it will hold in the uncoated beaker. You do 3 each to minimize the effects of stuff like imperfect forming of the beakers and imperfect coating of the beakers... Obviously this is not all-inclusive but is a starting point for you...

Have fun...
 

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Hi Wolverine, :)

Thanks, sure beats painting a large area. Yet and still, how would the results of the measurements be translated into meaningful R values?

I hadn't checked in a while and it sure is good to get some input.
 

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Rock On
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
....how would the results of the measurements be translated into meaningful R values?
I have checked into it and it is absolutely impossible for a paint to have an actual R value as per the nature of paint and the definition of R
 

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Ok Dude, what were the results of that test?

How many mils of which product does it take to achieve a significant R rating of insulatory value.

I'm confident reflective qualities could be accomplished in less, would they not?

...If a superconductor can pass high current, what is superpaint?
but that's apples and beets, isn't it...
r
 

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Ok Dude, what were the results of that test?

How many mils of which product does it take to achieve a significant R rating of insulatory value.

I'm confident reflective qualities could be accomplished in less, would they not?

...If a superconductor can pass high current, what is superpaint?
but that's apples and beets, isn't it...
r

I phoned/wrote one of the manufacturers down in Florida asking them a few questions about their paint. The receptionist directed me to their marketing dept. and I've never received a reply from them. I identified myself as a painting pro, but it seems they just want to sell their product to homeowners.

I've got 3M's tech. literature on the ceramic particles and I wanted to make sure I knew what I was dealing with. I'm going to contact their sales dept. next week, perhaps I'll have better luck.
 

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Great!, Wannabe...
Will be good to see what info you come up with.

Hopefully the Epoxy Dude will tell us more of what he thinks or knows.
He's at the cutting edge of formulating these space-age products.
r
 

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Epoxy Dude
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This is pretty good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

Since I don't calculate these things everyday... I don't really remember all of the calculations. I have to go back to a textbook to remember. If you poke around on the internet you should be able to figure it out. Basically, you need to look at the difference between the temperature on both sides of the coating, the time differential, and the coating thickness. <- I'm probably leaving something out...

The tests I laid out about will get you going but won't account for radiant heat reflection...

Basically, I'm going to expect that you will find that it takes a fair amount of thickness to acheive any significant R value...
 

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This is the thread that got my attention.

I have all the info and documentation about the product because
they want me to sell the product in my region.

Because they say it's Nasa technology involved people believe
the story. I myself have some distant.
Although the sample they gave me (a steel plate coated at one side with the product) feels different in temperature. More than I could imagine because of the slightly difference in surface structure.

I found some information about research of the product in paint,
and only found something official about the fast drying surface of the paint,
and therfor no fungus can get any grip on it.
I'n dutch it is called a 'hygrische diode'.
 

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hopefully someone keeps following up on this because i am interested...we have the power to debunk these marketing ploys out of the box and not let these creeps make money on lies or if it works we could speed up innnovation and make the product well known...and most costumers could be convinced to get a repaint with this....more work for all of us.
 

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Well, just bought a new house and I contacted a supplier near me for this Insuladd product. Thought I would give it a test run on one of my rooms once they are reno'd. Although I really want to know if this works. I dont have a frickin thermalvision camera, so unless I repaint the whole house in this stuff, I won't know if its cutting down my heating costs.
 

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I just discovered this, elsewhere...
Insulation paint?

<<A building materials chain Placemaker in New Zealand thru the dist. Matrex Cold Patch is selling a nanotech coating that is water based that at 5 mil dry thickness has a 60 degree temperature block (paintable insulation)called Nansulate.I've used it in my house that was built in 1927.I'm about 3/4 done on interior and we've dropped our heating and cooling bill about 30% and that is with heating and cooling an extra 450 sq ft of upstairs rooms we normally don't heat or cool unless we have company.But I wanted to see how it preformed.I'm a painter by trade and I like to use a new product before my customers.They have being using Nansulate to spay the underside of roof deckings in the attic and getting a 40-50 temp drop.The company has also stated they are releasing a epoxy base product for marine and oil and gas etc reducing the CO2 emissions from a home by painting is a pretty simple solution plus the added reduced energy bill and even if someone doesn't believe in GW I would think lower energy cost would "Foster" a smile.Nansulate.com for researching product Nansulate from Industrial Nanotech.I'm from Kansas USA you and yours take care.>>

I grabbed the above post from TOD as it referred to insulating qualities of paint, which we had discussed here. I've made no verification of the presentation.
 
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