The way I view it is this: My customer's want and are willing to pay for an 8. The labor requirements to go to a 9 or 10 are exponential and thus the price must also go up exponentially. As you say, most customers won't notice the difference in the quality of the work. They will notice the huge price difference.
Brian Phillips
I think this is an important part of this ongoing discussion about quality and success. I suspect that there is alot of the following:
Painters doing 9-10 work at 6 prices. Painters doing 5-6 work at 9-10 prices.
When their should be more:
Painters doing 8-9 work at 8-9 prices.
And the reality probably is that:
There is no such thing as perfection. You can just keep chasing it and trying to get as close to as it as you can, while as Brian said, costs are going through the roof, or you are losing your shirt.
In response to another aspect of the great quality debate of '08:
Would a car dealer sell me a BMW for the price of a Hyundai because he believes the BMW is the better quality car and, although the BMW is not in my price range, he is willing to absorb the loss to prove it? I hope so, because I will send everyone I know down there to get a BMW before they run out of BMW.
Guys who make the argument that they deliver quality no matter what are really interesting. In my BMW example, even if the dealer did that to prove it to me, chances are when I am ready for my next car, BMWs will still be out of my price range, and chances are out of most of my friends' price range too. So he wont be gaining a repeat customer or referrals. He just gave away what he believed was the appopriate quality car for me, and while I appreciate it, there is nothing I can do other than give him the money I would have paid for the Hyundai I was interested in.
Go back to post #1 in this thread and start over. Read it again. It appears that you have not retained the most significant information available to you from the original poster.
My example must have not been written well enough or read carefully enough. Its not about painters driving cars. Maybe take another crack at it after coffee this morning...
I guess the point of being out of the bucket vs. in the bucket - is that homeowner I think have an edge in taking advantage of 'in the bucket' painters - they can skirt the original proposal and get free work.
A more professional company with workers and a strict hierarchy - I think a homeowner will be less apt to try and get something for nothing.
Come on you know the drill - you are on your side painting some baseboard - and wife comes up to you and says - can you do so and so?
I would say sure, I'll add it to the scope of work and bill.
As owner/operators - we usually nickeled and dimed to death, unless we confront homeowners head on.
Theres no confrontation about it. When they ask you the question, you are assuming they want it for free. Then you make it a self fulfilling prophecy by...
I know on one home I was asked to do extra scraping which was an extra $700 worth of work on top of the estimate. I did it - never said anything. Finally the housewife asked me if I was going to scrape another section of home that I wasn't even contracted to touch - and that's when I confronted and told her no - it's not on the estimate, I've already eaten $700 in labor - enough is enough.
Its a communication problem. You don't need heirarchy and layers of management. You need to run your business, no matter its size. I'm not into free work. You arent either, so you shouldnt keep quiet and do it, then complain. Both you and the customer end up with a bad taste in your mouth, and thats not good for repeat business or word of mouth.
Big crews - the homeowner has no idea who to poke and prod during the job - and unless they make a phone call to 'headquarters' most requests never get brought up.
It does get old hearing the contempt for "big guys" which these days seem to be defined as anyone with an employee or two. You are absolutely correct that it is easier to have a crew or two, once you get through the learning curve, than to be scrambling around trying to wear 100 hats. It is not possible to do it all well. Thats why there are so many miserable, cynical painters. Thanks for the straight shooting.
Its a game of pick your poison. Would you rather work yourself to death or deal with employees? Thats the fundamental choice we all make. Its not fun all the time being responsible for several employees but it sure is nice to be able to delegate alot of the painting tasks. I will not be filling nail holes or going up on ridge hooks when I am 50. It doesnt take long to fry the crap out of your shoulders, knees, etc and I'm sure many of us wake up in the middle of the night with our hands dead asleep. I realized a couple few years ago that my son is not going to grow up watching me labor myself to death. Its different for everyone but its really important to think beyond the short term immediate gain mindset, which I think alot of guys cant do. I'd rather run a business than have a job. Thats why I went into business. People will let you work yourself to death, dont let yourself.
I think those 2 customers will promote Jack Pauhl!
That being said, there is a curious phenomenon among higher end clientele where they are not as likely to be pushing your name around because:
A. You dont need them to and they know it
B. Its not their business
C. They want to know that you are going to available to serve their needs and not too busy serving their friends and colleagues
There are are no universal truths in this business.
How would you even have time to be helping another paint contractor on his job if your customers (and you) were successful in promoting your own business? I dont mean to be contrarian your post above seems kind of contradictory. Do you see nothing wrong with handing out your card to the customer of the contractor who is paying you? I guess its shame on the other contractor for bringing in an elite hired gun.
Hi Jake, welcome to the forum and thanks for your viewpoint. The goal of this article when I wrote it was not to insist on anyone choosing a particular business model. I know plenty of profitable owner/operator companies that prefer the lower stress of having no employees and enjoy their craft. The truly profitable companies have savvy owners that can blend good business and service with offering a good job. But one variable remains.. you have to price right and that was really my intended message. All of us have to consider that one injury that ends it all. It doesn't have to be job related. There are precautions that can be taken such as disability insurance and cash reserving/investment that can hedge the bet. With that being said, by and large, the savvy business owners are the minority in the trades. Even if every single person that has ever posted or read here at Paint talk represents the elite, there are tens of thousands that believe that working hard and doing a better job than the next guy is the key to success. Admirable in its goal, it just does not represent reality.
This still stands out as one of the best pieces of content I have seen anywhere.
Good content makes people think, whether they agree with you or not. As long as people are thinking, that is whats important.
You just made me think of something...gotta go. Later.
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