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The cut does appear to need some help. It could also be from the last time the wall was painted. There is no way to really know without being there. I always hate it when the previous painter did not leave a nice line if I am only painting the walls makes it hard to clean it up. From the picture I am not seeing anything that says its a terrible job. Pictures can make things look good that are not though. My advice is to try to make the customer happy if that is possible. Some paints do feel dry on the wall. If they are wanting a smooth feel scuff x feels smooth when it is brushed and rolled. The matte sheen is nice. The eggshell is fairly shinny but it will feel slick. If its not possible to make them happy do the best you can and try to come to a fair resolution on the billing. If not possible I would say move on and make money elsewhere.


The guy who taught me how to paint had a saying. I never lost money on a job I didn't do. Some times its best to not do certain jobs whether that is a customer that is too difficult or a job that is not easy due to amount of prep needed or set up of ladders/lifts some times its best to know when to not take a job. I think over the years one can get pretty good at detecting if a potential customer maybe difficult during the initial estimate but every once in a while one sneaks past the radar.
 

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remember the false horror stories circulating years ago that you can not mix different acrylic/latex paint brands into one 5 gallon bucket if you had some leftovers of similar colors because they are not compatible
..
this part is actually true. I used to (still do too) get asked all the time can they box primers, paints or whatever leftovers. For the most part I would wager its probably ok but I recall at least one incidence I saw in person we were boxing the Aura red undercoater and old formula porch and floor country redwood. Holy hell there were so many little bubbles it went on nice but 30 seconds later there was some bad reaction in the paint like 1 million little solvent bubbles developed that didn't pop and had to be sanded out and all to save a few dollars for a millionaire client LOL. Not all latex products are compatible; do so at your own risk.
 

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lol from what i have read on PT and heard from my friend who uses bm, the million solvent bubbles are actually quite common occurrences with bm paints like regal and aura
so no surprise there
apparently those solvent bubbles in bm paints are happening straight from the can, without mixing with other bm paints
looks like many bad batches, quality control issue
we never had those issues with solvent bubbles with behr or shw paints
i hope bm can solve that problem

perhaps this is the problem that the OP is having with walls not feeling smooth
Cmon dude, seriously.?
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Update: I'm a 4th generation painter and plasterer with 14 years of experience. Cut lines were as she asked because she didn't want to paint trim she wanted me to over lap old paint as the cheap remedy against my advice. I usually will crisp up trim works for people if they don't mind the few extra hours but she didn't understand.

Interesting input about people having bad batches of BM Regal. Anyways, I ended up walking on the job for missed paintment and ended up working a day for free. She just simply was never going to pay. Oh well. I've had tough customers before but this was a one of kind hell job and that's why I reached out here. Upon cleaning up and leaving another paint crew came in and I walked up to their van to give them fair warning about the missed payment and she can sprinting out of the house cursing me aggressively in chinese "you don't say anything to them!!!" They appreciated my warning and I hope the heed it. Already on to the next one.


As for pictures I have some more but the forum isn't let me attach more pictures. Is that function blocked because I'm new ?
 

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The horse is certainly out of the barn with this customer. Here is what I was told in 1989 by a Blue Star Paint Chemist. A manufacturer or chemist can create a paint to do whatever benefit you want. The disadvantage with a latex paint is that it sets up quickly {as opposed to an alkyd} and does not self level. Adage #2 is the higher the quality of the paint, the quicker it sets up and the leveling quality is somewhat lost. Adage#3 A latex will appear blotchy/chalky/ not as solid a finish when compared to an alkyd.

Appears the customers expectations were a paint job you would apply to their BMW? We are not privy to your conversation, however I recommend the following. Get 2 or 3 18"X18" sheets of drywall, get 3 or 4 draw down cards from your paint dealer. Apply 2 coats of your eggshell product on the drywall and drawdown cards with a variety of roller covers and ask the customer which finish is acceptable to their requirements? Remember, the higher the sheen or gloss the more the imperfections are highlighted. Your photo appears blotchy IMO but it could be the light reflectance. Adage 4 Always inspect the substrate /wall at a 60 degree angle, get your customer to agree to this method of inspection, The shadows may be creating an uneven or blotchy appearance when inspection is directly in front of you. Finally, take a 8X11 sheet of yellow paper, cut a 2 inch triangle in the middle, hold up against the substrate or wall and see if you can pick up any imperfections? Great for matching colors and picking up uneven mil build.

My experience tells me your customer may be expecting too much from a Level 5 paint job. Adage 5 is from my butcher, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap, find a new customer. Have a wonderful day
 

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The horse is certainly out of the barn with this customer. Here is what I was told in 1989 by a Blue Star Paint Chemist. A manufacturer or chemist can create a paint to do whatever benefit you want. The disadvantage with a latex paint is that it sets up quickly {as opposed to an alkyd} and does not self level. Adage #2 is the higher the quality of the paint, the quicker it sets up and the leveling quality is somewhat lost. Adage#3 A latex will appear blotchy/chalky/ not as solid a finish when compared to an alkyd.

Appears the customers expectations were a paint job you would apply to their BMW? We are not privy to your conversation, however I recommend the following. Get 2 or 3 18"X18" sheets of drywall, get 3 or 4 draw down cards from your paint dealer. Apply 2 coats of your eggshell product on the drywall and drawdown cards with a variety of roller covers and ask the customer which finish is acceptable to their requirements? Remember, the higher the sheen or gloss the more the imperfections are highlighted. Your photo appears blotchy IMO but it could be the light reflectance. Adage 4 Always inspect the substrate /wall at a 60 degree angle, get your customer to agree to this method of inspection, The shadows may be creating an uneven or blotchy appearance when inspection is directly in front of you. Finally, take a 8X11 sheet of yellow paper, cut a 2 inch triangle in the middle, hold up against the substrate or wall and see if you can pick up any imperfections? Great for matching colors and picking up uneven mil build.

My experience tells me your customer may be expecting too much from a Level 5 paint job. Adage 5 is from my butcher, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap, find a new customer. Have a wonderful day
Customers don't know what level 5 means for the cost associated with getting there. And you cannot give them too many options, they are not experts you will just confuse them.
Dealing with this on the aforementioned job with fixing nail pops. As soon as you fix one, the nail next to it pops too. Put a screw in and the nails on adjacent studs pop too. Come back the next day and you'll find more that popped overnight. Pretty soon you went to fix a couple nail pops and you ended up replacing the entire ceiling. Most painters would have gone right over them but since we asked the customer if they wanted nail pops fixed... Well in reality there are no half measures and the labor cost basically tripled as soon as we fixed ONE nail.
What is the previous standard? Where does the customer want the finish to end up? Customers don't know and often don't care but that's a conversation that has to be had before a simple paint job turns into a renovation.
 

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Customers don't know what level 5 means for the cost associated with getting there. And you cannot give them too many options, they are not experts you will just confuse them.
Dealing with this on the aforementioned job with fixing nail pops. As soon as you fix one, the nail next to it pops too. Put a screw in and the nails on adjacent studs pop too. Come back the next day and you'll find more that popped overnight. Pretty soon you went to fix a couple nail pops and you ended up replacing the entire ceiling. Most painters would have gone right over them but since we asked the customer if they wanted nail pops fixed... Well in reality there are no half measures and the labor cost basically tripled as soon as we fixed ONE nail.
What is the previous standard? Where does the customer want the finish to end up? Customers don't know and often don't care but that's a conversation that has to be had before a simple paint job turns into a renovation.
I'm not sure treating a customer like they are stupid is not the best long-term strategy. :unsure:

I have found that many/most clients are usually intelligent enough to understand an issue when it is explained to them, especially as it pertains to their home. If they cannot be reasoned with, or do not trust the person they hire to complete the work, it is usually a sign that the relationship is not going to last long.
 

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I'm not sure treating a customer like they are stupid is not the best long-term strategy. :unsure:

I have found that many/most clients are usually intelligent enough to understand an issue when it is explained to them, especially as it pertains to their home. If they cannot be reasoned with, or do not trust the person they hire to complete the work, it is usually a sign that the relationship is not going to last long.
The issue isn't the intelligence of anyone, it is the customer coming back to say "whatever you think is best" which can be a cascading set of problems. Especially with an absentee owner how would you go about explaining over the phone the issue of exponential nail pops to be fixed when all they asked for was the existing level 5 smooth walls? I would think its best to fix every nail, but they may not want to justify the time and cost once they see every single nail in the entire house needs fixing. Even high resolution pictures don't adequately explain the problem, simply standing there and seeing a nails pop out when you put in a screw does.

My point is it needs to be clearly laid out exactly what is to be done and the cost associated with doing so and the potentional for it to balloon. To use a car analogy there isn't room for any customer going in for a tire change and the mechanic giving the car back with a new front end.
 

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I feel as though you've done a good job. After reading your procedures, they mimic mine and I always get good results. I too, roll with a 1/4" nap roller and never have any issues. The stipple it leaves behind is very minimal and I always keep everything wet. I think your customer is expecting spray quality work and if you're not spraying, you can't compete with that. She should have known that when she hired you.
 

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The issue isn't the intelligence of anyone, it is the customer coming back to say "whatever you think is best" which can be a cascading set of problems. Especially with an absentee owner how would you go about explaining over the phone the issue of exponential nail pops to be fixed when all they asked for was the existing level 5 smooth walls? I would think its best to fix every nail, but they may not want to justify the time and cost once they see every single nail in the entire house needs fixing. Even high resolution pictures don't adequately explain the problem, simply standing there and seeing a nails pop out when you put in a screw does.

My point is it needs to be clearly laid out exactly what is to be done and the cost associated with doing so and the potentional for it to balloon. To use a car analogy there isn't room for any customer going in for a tire change and the mechanic giving the car back with a new front end.
My contract states the work will be done "as good or better than PDCA standards." Depending on the contract (if there is one) the OP would win a lawsuit in a heartbeat, providing the work is as good as the pictures show.
 
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