[toddcla2002]

So last year in October I have a client sign a contract for a 12k job and I get 3k deposit. In my contract it states that I don't start the job until I have all the colors (so there are no delays once I start other than weather etc.). I did a couple test patches (6) and he still hadn't made a decision. I told him that I will not start the work until colors are chosen. He calls and asks me to come out and do some caulking and wood cleaning and reviving. I tell him I won't START the job until he chooses colors. He then decides early December that since I didn't have the job done by Thanksgiving which would have been a possibility if we had colors in a timely manner that he would like for me to return his deposit check and cancel the contract. According to what I have in my contract and I believe the law is that after three days I don't have to give him a refund and it's liquidated damages. Now he's threatening that if I don't give him the 3k back that he had his lawyer look at my contract and it would "take him 20 seconds in court" to get an order issued for me to return his money. I am assuming that you will tell me to lawyer up and I probably will....this is just stressful.

I am a simple paint contractor and he was a big shot realtor making 350k a year and maybe a little hot headed but I think he realizes he's in over his head with his new huge house and now he doesn't have any homes to sell now and wants to paint it himself. This type of stuff just chaps my hide. If you have any advice please help....thanks.

~todd

 

[AALory]

Well of course times are tough...for everyone, painters included. I believe you are well within your rights to keep the deposit. Assuming your contract is clear and there are no stipulations concerning a date by which you will have completed all the specified work, you should be fine. In the unpredictable marketplace of the coming years, I think you are right to stick to your guns and not sacrifice any income. Every dollar counts. Good luck to you.:thumbsup:

 

[slickshift]

I'm sure he never had a lawyer look at it


Regardless...it's either spelled out in your contract that it's non-refundable, or it's not

We can't comment on it unless you post up your verbiage

It will be rather cut and dry

(Though, I think I'd consider giving it back just to not have to deal with Mr. Decision any more...sounds like a PITA)

 

[MAK-Deco]

Yea hard to tell what would happen w/o knowing what is said in writing. How much time do you have so far on the job? with color samples etc.. Maybe you can come to an agreement on a fair amount to keep from the deposit and return some of it.

Also sound like its a good thing you won't be working for this person in the future!

 

[Base Painters]

In my contracts there is a cancellation fee.

 

[ProWallGuy]

He then decides early December that since I didn't have the job done by Thanksgiving which would have been a possibility if we had colors in a timely manner that he would like for me to return his deposit check and cancel the contract.

So, what's happened in the period of six months since he decided he wanted his $$$ back?

 

[bikerboy]

Give him money back minus any costs you have incurred. Just good business.

 

[NEPS.US]

Give him money back minus any costs you have incurred. Just good business.

:yes:

 

[Alex PCI]

Give him money back minus any costs you have incurred. Just good business.

Yea, thats not only good business, but its the right thing to do.
No matter what the contract says, you cant keep 3k of someones money if the expenses incurred on you do not equal that.

 

[vermontpainter]

This seems like such a no brainer. Of course you give the deposit back.

The problem for a lot of guys in handling deposits is that they treat immediately as income. Its not. It should be available. The guy that screams is the often the guy who is not in a position to refund it because it is gone.

 

[PressurePros]

Same page as the last few posters. You have no right to keep the money, you didn't earn it. Bill for your expenses and move on. You are writing about a job you booked in October and it is now June. I'd want my money back too. Contracts are nice and terms do have to be spelled out many times but you have to be a human being in business as well. I think you could have compromised. If you would have performed a couple thousand dollars worth of prep, the customer would have been appeased. Sticking to your guns in this situation is a loser.

 

[GMack]

I agree that the right thing to do is to return the money minus expenses.

That said, I have a question: What is the purpose of the contract? Todd spelled out his terms and apparently received a non-refundable deposit to hold a spot on his schedule. Now the customer has changed his mind and wants his money back . . . Like I said, I'd give the money back without question but I rarely use contracts. If you aren't going to honor the contract why have it?

 

[PressurePros]

Mack, everything in life is about compromise and doing what's right. Contracts are good for CYA but they should not replace the above. I understand Todd's viewpoint of wanting to start the job and finish it within a certain timeframe. That's just good business and picking colors can halt progress quickly. Look at it from the H.O's standpoint. A good faith request was made by the customer. It could go either way. Start the project, communicate with the homeowner and reiterate your stance on being held up. If this project could have been completed 7 months ago and it is still hanging that indicates a deal going bad. It should not still be dragging on.

Todd, maybe you could amend your contract to say that if certain criteria aren't met by a certain date prior to commence that a certain dollar amount is forfeited. That may motivate the customer to sh** or get off the pot.

 

[crow]

It aint gonna be werf the trouble, if hes anybody round there, he can probably stir up more crap than you wanna have in your area. a pissed customer alone can start trouble, think what somebody in his place could do. hed probably have the word out real fast and hes gonna give his side a the story. aint werf it!

 

[NEPS.US]

If I had a contract dragging on for 7 months I'd want to give them their deposit back. If you having this much trouble with color selections can you imagine what collecting the final payment will be like. I also don't understand why you would need 25% to book a job. That usually a sign that you need a deposit to pay off your last job.

 

[ewingpainting.net]

I know in California the law says you can only collect a deposit of 10% or a $1000.00 which ever is less. If that were here I'd lose, however I would have started the job with or with out colors. Its not like its holding you up. I would give his deposit back and say sorry we could not work things out. I always end a bad situation with a non defensive stance. In hopes that one day they will remember me

 

[ProWallGuy]

Nothing wrong with receiving a large deposit on a job, whether its 25%, 33%, or 50%. Doesn't mean that you are struggling financially, nor does it mean you need it to pay off the last job. It does mean you have cash flow that is much needed for a small business, especially if you don't have multiple crews bringing in a lot of flow. It also means the customer is serious about the job, and they now have a stake in it as much as you do. Obviously if you ARE using it to finance past jobs, or its already spent before the job starts, you are in a world of hurt. I too have a stipulation in my contract regarding down payments and cancellations:

C) CUSTOMER RIGHTS:
The Customer has the right to cancel this transaction within three (3) business days from the date of the transaction. If the Customer wishes to do so, they must complete a Cancellation Form which will be provided by the Contractor. Upon receipt of the Cancellation Form, the Contractor will return 100% of any deposit or property within ten (10) business days. If cancellation is made after midnight of the third (3rd) business day, the Contractor will retain 10% of the Total Price.


Notice the clause says 10% of the total price, not 10% of the deposit.
If this guy waited forever to decide and cancel the job, he would be at my mercy if I FELT like giving the money back or not. I probably would, but most likely it never would have gone on this long. I would have lit a huge fire under their ass in regards to picking those colors when it was time to do so.

I do agree it would be smart to give back what you don't have into the job at this point. BUT, if you value your time like I do, and you tallied up all those times you sat there and fretted, worried, or stressed out over when this damn job was going to commence, he would have burned through that 3 grand by sometime in late January or early February. :yes:

I still want to know what happened between early December and now.

 

[vermontpainter]

Ok so once in a while a thread comes up that makes me give it some thought as I am driving home from work. Heres what I think.

Although your contract states that you will not start work until colors are chosen, I would reconsider that strategy. First, some people have a really hard time picking colors and when the tone is set that it is a life or death decision, it doesnt usually happen faster. So, I would have gone in and sanded every ceiling, wall and trim surface. Do your patching and skimming and caulking. As you are doing this, gently remind them that you have some rooms ready to paint and sure could use the colors. If they need help, offer color consultation or offer to refer them to a color consultant. This usually helps.

If they just dont pick a color still, you cease work when the deposit has been consumed by labor, materials, profit and pita factor, and you tell them to call when they are ready to proceed. Generally, at best, you would be leaving him with a "prepped" house. People want "painted" houses, so colors tend to flow. Worst case, if they dont, you have been paid for what you did and no longer need to return the deposit. You have earned it. Also, digitally photograph and document every single expense that the deposit was consumed by.

I hope this helps.

 

[Housepainter]

Vermount:

I believe that is some solid wisdom for all of us to consider. :yes:
While we all want jobs to go as smooth as possible we do live in a world where there are bumps in the road, even with the best of plans or contracts specifications..

Michael

 

[NEPS.US]

Nothing wrong with receiving a large deposit on a job, whether its 25%, 33%, or 50%. Doesn't mean that you are struggling financially, nor does it mean you need it to pay off the last job. It does mean you have cash flow that is much needed for a small business, especially if you don't have multiple crews bringing in a lot of flow. It also means the customer is serious about the job, and they now have a stake in it as much as you do. Obviously if you ARE using it to finance past jobs, or its already spent before the job starts, you are in a world of hurt. I too have a stipulation in my contract regarding down payments and cancellations:

C) CUSTOMER RIGHTS:
The Customer has the right to cancel this transaction within three (3) business days from the date of the transaction. If the Customer wishes to do so, they must complete a Cancellation Form which will be provided by the Contractor. Upon receipt of the Cancellation Form, the Contractor will return 100% of any deposit or property within ten (10) business days. If cancellation is made after midnight of the third (3rd) business day, the Contractor will retain 10% of the Total Price.


Notice the clause says 10% of the total price, not 10% of the deposit.
If this guy waited forever to decide and cancel the job, he would be at my mercy if I FELT like giving the money back or not. I probably would, but most likely it never would have gone on this long. I would have lit a huge fire under their ass in regards to picking those colors when it was time to do so.

I do agree it would be smart to give back what you don't have into the job at this point. BUT, if you value your time like I do, and you tallied up all those times you sat there and fretted, worried, or stressed out over when this damn job was going to commence, he would have burned through that 3 grand by sometime in late January or early February. :yes:

I still want to know what happened between early December and now.

I would not expect to take 25, 33 or 50% just to BOOK a job. To START a job, fine. But to just book a job in a calender? Just not how I do business.