Professional Painting Contractors Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a front door to paint. I did a test using denature alcohol and determined it is oil based (as it didn't remove the paint).

My game plan was to go with Snap Dry as the dry time is quick, but as I need oil, that won't fly.

What do ya'll do when painting front doors...escpecially when extra dry time is needed. It is presently a black door and not sure what color they'll go with, but anything over black will only take more coats. On my radar is the blocking that would occur on the backside/trim whenever the door is closed.

Is there a fast (er) drying oil paint or type that can go over oil? Or fast drying bonding primer or something before latex? Run fan?

This is one of those persistant puzzles in my mind...I don't often paint front doors.

Additionally, this job is a long communte from the city to the country...for friends, so if there's anyway I can make it happen in a day, that would be ideal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Usually the by the book solution is oil primer + whatever latex you want. Other bonding primers or paints may or may not work with enough scuffing, but the reason oil primers are still around is that it will always work in an oil over oil scenario.

That said, if I was to bet on a water based product as a bonding primer it would probably be Insl-X Aqualock. I used that plus BM Aura Exterior on a bunch of garage doors with a likely oil based very slick coating just washed down without sanding at all and it couldn't be fingernailed off in an hour and a half or so. Oil is a lot slower to actually cure up imo, but oil and BIN have the advantage of truly sanding to powder once they cure up in a day or so, whereas most latex primers don't sand as well as oil. I didn't try sanding Aqualock but it did level really well, better than most low VOC oils which level pretty terribly now.

For going right over it with paint, obviously every paint company in the USA will sell you a paint they claim can do it, but I think unless you've personally tried them yourself over oil you can't make a judgment ultimately. If your friends' house is somewhere they won't be too upset at you over mediocre adhesion, you can try stuff out there, but I'd not do it on a stranger's house, if that makes any sense. As in, try out a paint I've never used before without a primer over oil.
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
2,924 Posts
Usually the by the book solution is oil primer + whatever latex you want. Other bonding primers or paints may or may not work with enough scuffing, but the reason oil primers are still around is that it will always work in an oil over oil scenario.

That said, if I was to bet on a water based product as a bonding primer it would probably be Insl-X Aqualock. I used that plus BM Aura Exterior on a bunch of garage doors with a likely oil based very slick coating just washed down without sanding at all and it couldn't be fingernailed off in an hour and a half or so. Oil is a lot slower to actually cure up imo, but oil and BIN have the advantage of truly sanding to powder once they cure up in a day or so, whereas most latex primers don't sand as well as oil. I didn't try sanding Aqualock but it did level really well, better than most low VOC oils which level pretty terribly now.

For going right over it with paint, obviously every paint company in the USA will sell you a paint they claim can do it, but I think unless you've personally tried them yourself over oil you can't make a judgment ultimately. If your friends' house is somewhere they won't be too upset at you over mediocre adhesion, you can try stuff out there, but I'd not do it on a stranger's house, if that makes any sense. As in, try out a paint I've never used before without a primer over oil.
There are many acrylic primers that are designed to stick to oil paints. Inslx Stix, UMA, Kilz Adhesion. They are all fantastic. Aqua lock isn't really designed as a bonding primer. However, Like Coco said, the new Chorotech Command was designed for this scenario in mind. I never really understood how they say you can't paint latex over an oil paint but can paint latex on an oil primer.. :unsure:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
Clean it, sand it to 180, rattle can it with solvent based bonding primer, sand primer and shoot two coats of WB commercial enamle, done in half a day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
There are many acrylic primers that are designed to stick to oil paints. Inslx Stix, UMA, Kilz Adhesion. They are all fantastic. Aqua lock isn't really designed as a bonding primer. However, Like Coco said, the new Chorotech Command was designed for this scenario in mind. I never really understood how they say you can't paint latex over an oil paint but can paint latex on an oil primer.. :unsure:
Aqualock may not be considered a "bonding" primer, but it has great adhesion, especially if you scuff sand first. It is our basic go to for an acrylic universal primer. I would have no problem scuff sanding an oil finish and priming with Aqualock. Adhesion would not be the issue imo. It is not great at stain killing though.
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
2,924 Posts
Aqualock may not be considered a "bonding" primer, but it has great adhesion, especially if you scuff sand first. It is our basic go to for an acrylic universal primer. I would have no problem scuff sanding an oil finish and priming with Aqualock. Adhesion would not be the issue imo. It is not great at stain killing though.
Definitely a good "universal" primer, it just wouldn't be my first choice as a bonding primer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
Good ole shellac is the worlds oldest and greatest primer? If you have a good horse, run him.
Right on the can of shellac they say to use it to spot prime knots outdoors, but not to use it for coverage outdoors. I am guessing it lacks the flexibility need for the expansion and contraction. But dewaxed shellac is an awesome primer. The pigmented shellac (BIN) ends up being cheaper unless you dilute from flakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Right on the can of shellac they say to use it to spot prime knots outdoors, but not to use it for coverage outdoors. I am guessing it lacks the flexibility need for the expansion and contraction. But dewaxed shellac is an awesome primer. The pigmented shellac (BIN) ends up being cheaper unless you dilute from flakes.
I will admit to using BIN outdoors on stuff more than knots on some occasions. :( I'm not saying it's best practice, but one house I drive by weekly and the door and frame section I did with BIN as primer and two coats of satin exterior paint (SW Solo) look pretty much like the day I did it 3 years out now in New England weather no less. Besides having it on hand and it being a fairly budget job, one other justification I had for BIN over a latex primer on gray bare wood that was there on frames and overhangs was ideally BIN would penetrate more since it was so thin.

I've heard the issue with BIN is eventually moisture can cause it to peel up. (IE, like leaving a glass on a shellac table causes rings...) I think on a front door scenario it's kinda less likely, as though it's "exterior" generally a screened glass door covers it and while it has to deal with temperature swings, overall moisture on the door is likely low. I'm sure there's a lot of other old timers who claimed to have used BIN outdoors without issues. Another older 50ish year old pro I worked with told me had issues with it in a bathroom as a whole room primer. I think a big issue would be using it under a flat paint where water would have higher chances of going into the primer layer, or if the paint is already failing in some manner then it would make the primer blister under it? As an impromptu test later I got a stained board and painted a thin layer of BIN on it and left it outdoors for a week or so, and it did crack and peel up after rain.

I think on a door that doesn't see much actual weather it would be totally fine as a primer and it sands down super smooth and nice. But anything seeing a lot of weather would likely be bad to use it on.


Clean it, sand it to 180, rattle can it with solvent based bonding primer, sand primer and shoot two coats of WB commercial enamle, done in half a day.
Yeah, I had a DIY car painting project I used a lot of the Rustoleum 2 in 1 primer on and I kinda question now why I ever bothered with brushing and rolling oil primers on things like fresh metal doors, etc. Now RPM is coming out with the "turbo" cans of Cover Stain and an oil/lacquer based 1-2-3 and those things are nuts and could definitely cover a door really efficiently.

Absolutely nuts. Perhaps this video ends the thread, haha.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,377 Posts
I will admit to using BIN outdoors on stuff more than knots on some occasions. :( I'm not saying it's best practice, but one house I drive by weekly and the door and frame section I did with BIN as primer and two coats of satin exterior paint (SW Solo) look pretty much like the day I did it 3 years out now in New England weather no less. Besides having it on hand and it being a fairly budget job, one other justification I had for BIN over a latex primer on gray bare wood that was there on frames and overhangs was ideally BIN would penetrate more since it was so thin.

I've heard the issue with BIN is eventually moisture can cause it to peel up. (IE, like leaving a glass on a shellac table causes rings...) I think on a front door scenario it's kinda less likely, as though it's "exterior" generally a screened glass door covers it and while it has to deal with temperature swings, overall moisture on the door is likely low. I'm sure there's a lot of other old timers who claimed to have used BIN outdoors without issues. Another older 50ish year old pro I worked with told me had issues with it in a bathroom as a whole room primer. I think a big issue would be using it under a flat paint where water would have higher chances of going into the primer layer, or if the paint is already failing in some manner then it would make the primer blister under it? As an impromptu test later I got a stained board and painted a thin layer of BIN on it and left it outdoors for a week or so, and it did crack and peel up after rain.

I think on a door that doesn't see much actual weather it would be totally fine as a primer and it sands down super smooth and nice. But anything seeing a lot of weather would likely be bad to use it on.




Yeah, I had a DIY car painting project I used a lot of the Rustoleum 2 in 1 primer on and I kinda question now why I ever bothered with brushing and rolling oil primers on things like fresh metal doors, etc. Now RPM is coming out with the "turbo" cans of Cover Stain and an oil/lacquer based 1-2-3 and those things are nuts and could definitely cover a door really efficiently.

Absolutely nuts. Perhaps this video ends the thread, haha.
Moisture around doors and windows is a big thing out here. I did some shipnshore on a hickory board a week ago, buff with a fine sponge and its slicker than a babys butt and will never have a moisture issue.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top