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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently moved to SC from NY. I'm having severe troubleshooting issues with these builds down here. It does not seem like any of the homes have ever had a good base coat primer placed. I, like make of many of you want to avoid lines on my walls and I'm not leaving roller marks on the walls, but when I look down the wall with light, I can see the various lines on the wall of paint drying too quickly. I'm putting down 1 coat of High Build Primer/tinted and, I'm using quality paint (recent job is Emerald Matte) sometimes 3 coats on the larger walls. My issue isn't with the paint per say, it's the first coat of anything that I lay on these walls. The walls are so porous that no matter what I put on them, they are drying unevenly. At first, I thought it was temperature issues and paint drying to quickly, I thought maybe I'm not working fast enough, or maybe my roller isn't loaded enough, but I shouldn't have a positive scratch test the roll I just made less then 5 minutes ago.

I've been told to sponge the walls the night before, put humidifiers in the room the night prior, get a heavy nap and water it down and roll the walls and give them about 2 hours prior to paint. I've tried a couple things, but nothing really helps. Any advice would be great!
 

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I recently moved to SC from NY. I'm having severe troubleshooting issues with these builds down here. It does not seem like any of the homes have ever had a good base coat primer placed. I, like make of many of you want to avoid lines on my walls and I'm not leaving roller marks on the walls, but when I look down the wall with light, I can see the various lines on the wall of paint drying too quickly. I'm putting down 1 coat of High Build Primer/tinted and, I'm using quality paint (recent job is Emerald Matte) sometimes 3 coats on the larger walls. My issue isn't with the paint per say, it's the first coat of anything that I lay on these walls. The walls are so porous that no matter what I put on them, they are drying unevenly. At first, I thought it was temperature issues and paint drying to quickly, I thought maybe I'm not working fast enough, or maybe my roller isn't loaded enough, but I shouldn't have a positive scratch test the roll I just made less then 5 minutes ago.

I've been told to sponge the walls the night before, put humidifiers in the room the night prior, get a heavy nap and water it down and roll the walls and give them about 2 hours prior to paint. I've tried a couple things, but nothing really helps. Any advice would be great!
Gardz
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Gardz oil based or water based? I'm assuming you're referring to the oil based given the situation, do you recommend two coats or would you think 1 is enough? Most of my business up north was repaint, so I never really run into interior walls needing this kind of primer, unless it was like some wood finish.
 

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Gardz oil based or water based? I'm assuming you're referring to the oil based given the situation, do you recommend two coats or would you think 1 is enough? Most of my business up north was repaint, so I never really run into interior walls needing this kind of primer, unless it was like some wood finish.
See the following for the resident gardz (waterbased) expert
 

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I've checked around even the box stores, this doesn't seem very common down by where I am. I can locate a few cans, but nothing in the 5 gallon size, any recommendations?
Roman 999 and Kilz Klear are available at Home Depot, and sorta work on the same format, but Gardz is better. I've only used Gardz myself and don't totally know how those other primers are, but Gardz/etc works sorta like a tile/stone sealer, very very thin layer that soaks into drywall mud and paper and really seals the surface well so paint has a long open time, and also sorta arguably waterproofs walls under the topcoat, too. It's prevented blistering in my bathroom that no other primer could do.

Sherwin has a Gardz knockoff too, besides Roman 999 (which they sell, too) called "Drywall Conditioner"

Pretty good video on how Gardz applies, it's basically water thin. Other primers won't do the same for open time and application without lines/etc that a Gardz type primer will.

Also iirc, I think most high build primers are meant for spray only, so rolled of course you'd get lines and a pretty rough texture due to being so thick. So even if you don't use Gardz, a normal "Drywall Primer" would be better than rolled high build.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Roman 999 and Kilz Klear are available at Home Depot, and sorta work on the same format, but Gardz is better. I've only used Gardz myself and don't totally know how those other primers are, but Gardz/etc works sorta like a tile/stone sealer, very very thin layer that soaks into drywall mud and paper and really seals the surface well so paint has a long open time, and also sorta arguably waterproofs walls under the topcoat, too. It's prevented blistering in my bathroom that no other primer could do.

Sherwin has a Gardz knockoff too, besides Roman 999 (which they sell, too) called "Drywall Conditioner"

Pretty good video on how Gardz applies, it's basically water thin. Other primers won't do the same for open time and application without lines/etc that a Gardz type primer will.

Also iirc, I think most high build primers are meant for spray only, so rolled of course you'd get lines and a pretty rough texture due to being so thick. So even if you don't use Gardz, a normal "Drywall Primer" would be better than rolled high build.
Thanks, appreciate it, when I spoke with SW rep, they were the ones who recommended the High Build it was the first time I used it, but the wall texture was very rough like sandpaper, (down here I hear they are getting away with tinting the skim coat and then spraying thinned out ceiling paint for the final coat), it was able to cover the walls, but it was just pulling the High Build in so unevenly.
 

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Thanks, appreciate it, when I spoke with SW rep, they were the ones who recommended the High Build it was the first time I used it, but the wall texture was very rough like sandpaper, (down here I hear they are getting away with tinting the skim coat and then spraying thinned out ceiling paint for the final coat), it was able to cover the walls, but it was just pulling the High Build in so unevenly.
'high build' primers are worthless promises made by reps who've never picked up a brush. Give it a pole sand and a coat of gardz then you're golden
 

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Has anyone tried the Zinsser Primecoat2 ?
SCPainter, welcome to Paint Talk! Cocomonkeynuts, in post #4 of this topic, included a link to a discussion on the use of Gardz to "SEAL" surfaces to be painted. Please take time to watch the video there of Jack Pauhl painting a ceiling that has been Gardzed. This "seal" dries clear and also acts like a very good "primer" as in allowing the paint topcoat to adhere properly. Zinsser Gardz is owned and made by Rustoleum. There are a few other products that do what Gardz does. Cocomonkeynuts might have a BM clear sealer that will work. Where in South Carolina are you located in? Maybe one of us can help you locate a product that will be of use to you.

From what you have posted, it sounds like the water in your paint is being sucked up by the porous surface it is being applied to so fast that there is no time to come back and smooth out any roller lines. The solids in the roller lines may have become "set" due to the water being sucked into the dry surface it was applied to and now is near impossible to smooth out as there is no liquid medium left to spread these solids out flat. When you properly "Gardz" / seal a surface, the paint on either a ceiling or a wall where you started to roll should still be wet where you started when you finish. There is an old saying about how something could be as boring as watching paint dry. As far as I am concerned, I would rather see the paint stay wet as I roll. This wetness helps to give me ........... you guessed it, a wet edge!
A wet edge gives a painter that which a desert environment cannot. The better you can control your environment, the better your paint job will turn out.

Another aspect of "roller lines" might have to do with the roller cover you are using. I once found that a roller cover I was using was behaving like a mohair on both sides of a 9" cover - meaning that as I rolled a wall and went back to smooth things down in the same direction I could see large roller lines down the wall that were not due to paint being squeezed out the edges. These lines were due to the fact that the 9" roller cover was acting like 2 x 4 1/2" mohair roller covers acting the opposite of each other such that one half of the 9" roller looked smooth on the way rolling down whereas the other half of the roller was raising up the paint! I watched this in shock at what I was seeing, wondering how a manufacturer could create something so bizarre as this. I have more to say regarding your problem, but it is getting late and I find myself at a point, so let me leave with this for tonight:

fut
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
SCPainter, welcome to Paint Talk! Cocomonkeynuts, in post #4 of this topic, included a link to a discussion on the use of Gardz to "SEAL" surfaces to be painted. Please take time to watch the video there of Jack Pauhl painting a ceiling that has been Gardzed. This "seal" dries clear and also acts like a very good "primer" as in allowing the paint topcoat to adhere properly. Zinsser Gardz is owned and made by Rustoleum. There are a few other products that do what Gardz does. Cocomonkeynuts might have a BM clear sealer that will work. Where in South Carolina are you located in? Maybe one of us can help you locate a product that will be of use to you.

From what you have posted, it sounds like the water in your paint is being sucked up by the porous surface it is being applied to so fast that there is no time to come back and smooth out any roller lines. The solids in the roller lines may have become "set" due to the water being sucked into the dry surface it was applied to and now is near impossible to smooth out as there is no liquid medium left to spread these solids out flat. When you properly "Gardz" / seal a surface, the paint on either a ceiling or a wall where you started to roll should still be wet where you started when you finish. There is an old saying about how something could be as boring as watching paint dry. As far as I am concerned, I would rather see the paint stay wet as I roll. This wetness helps to give me ........... you guessed it, a wet edge!
A wet edge gives a painter that which a desert environment cannot. The better you can control your environment, the better your paint job will turn out.

Another aspect of "roller lines" might have to do with the roller cover you are using. I once found that a roller cover I was using was behaving like a mohair on both sides of a 9" cover - meaning that as I rolled a wall and went back to smooth things down in the same direction I could see large roller lines down the wall that were not due to paint being squeezed out the edges. These lines were due to the fact that the 9" roller cover was acting like 2 x 4 1/2" mohair roller covers acting the opposite of each other such that one half of the 9" roller looked smooth on the way rolling down whereas the other half of the roller was raising up the paint! I watched this in shock at what I was seeing, wondering how a manufacturer could create something so bizarre as this. I have more to say regarding your problem, but it is getting late and I find myself at a point, so let me leave with this for tonight:

fut
Appreciate it, I'm in the myrtle beach area code, and I've read and watched the videos, and I've read up on the forms about it after being recommended. It seems exactly what I'm looking for but doesn't look like I can find it much, just from google searches and a few calls to the SW/ BM dealers, I would be driving 30-40 minutes to pick up the one gallon they have in stock.

It is definitively being caused by the moisture pull, there is nothing to sand the wall it very smooth, the first coat of paint it being pulled slightly as well, but when I get to the 2nd coat of good paint, the wall stays wet like expected, and what I'm typically used to working with.
 

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Roman 999 and Kilz Klear are available at Home Depot, and sorta work on the same format, but Gardz is better. I've only used Gardz myself and don't totally know how those other primers are, but Gardz/etc works sorta like a tile/stone sealer, very very thin layer that soaks into drywall mud and paper and really seals the surface well so paint has a long open time, and also sorta arguably waterproofs walls under the topcoat, too. It's prevented blistering in my bathroom that no other primer could do.

Sherwin has a Gardz knockoff too, besides Roman 999 (which they sell, too) called "Drywall Conditioner"

Pretty good video on how Gardz applies, it's basically water thin. Other primers won't do the same for open time and application without lines/etc that a Gardz type primer will.

Also iirc, I think most high build primers are meant for spray only, so rolled of course you'd get lines and a pretty rough texture due to being so thick. So even if you don't use Gardz, a normal "Drywall Primer" would be better than rolled high build.
I love how the sink got installed before the painter even got a coat of primer on the drywall. :censored:
 

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Appreciate it, I'm in the myrtle beach area code, and I've read and watched the videos, and I've read up on the forms about it after being recommended. It seems exactly what I'm looking for but doesn't look like I can find it much, just from google searches and a few calls to the SW/ BM dealers, I would be driving 30-40 minutes to pick up the one gallon they have in stock.

It is definitively being caused by the moisture pull, there is nothing to sand the wall it very smooth, the first coat of paint it being pulled slightly as well, but when I get to the 2nd coat of good paint, the wall stays wet like expected, and what I'm typically used to working with.
If you can't get gardz or anything equivalent (drawtite, benjaminmoore V027 or SW sealer) than I would reach for something like aqualock or fresh start primer that has good hold out properties, ecospec primer is really good too.
 

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The Home Depot in Myrtle Beach carriies Kilz Clear for 25.00 a gallon. I have no experience using it, but it might be worth a try. I remember using Aqualock years ago and it seemed to do a good job of sealing surfaces and it is white to boot. I met a painter in the Chicago area who was called to seal a bathroom prior to wallpaper being hung by a wallpaper specialty company from NYC. They insisted the walls be sealed with lacquer. The Chicago painter convinced them that he uses Aqualock all the time to hand wallpaper over. They let him Aqualok the walls and they started using Aqualock to hang wallpaper over.

futtyos
 

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If it is not primed, this will happen, the lines are where the wall is properly sealed. the paint will eventually "prime" the walls. but you will get those lines. if it is not in the budget for the job, don't prime. leave the walls. if a customer puts a light on the wall and looks for lines like that, I tell them to hire a "Level 5" painter. outrageous price, but guaranteed smooth wall. again...how much time and money is the HO/contractor willing to spend?
 
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