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Paint Store Owner
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I just have a hard time thinking one coat of Duration is better than two of Super. And price wise, one of Duration is cheaper than two of Super. EASY up sell but I don't believe it... I might be wrong since I'm not a chemist or since I haven't been in business long enough to see the difference between 25 years and lifetime...
Right, BUT you need to look at the spread rates as well.

Duration ext flat recommended spread rate 250-300' per gal 2.8mil DFT

Superpaint ext flat recommended spread rate 350-400' per gal 1.6mil DFT

So you need almost 2 coats of superpaint to equal the same DFT ( Dry film thickness ) of Duration, but the trade off is the spread rate. You'll use more product with Duration per coat.


This is info from their data sheets

http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=640392239

http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=640345203
 

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Painting & More
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564 Posts
Hopefully not veering off topic, but when you all say "2 coats", how long between coats do you wait? Do you let the first application skin, dry, or what? Do you back brush, if sprayed and then lightly spray over that???

Also, I tell customers that they should expect about 7 years out of a good paint, that way they aren't looking for me when the north side shows wear before the rest of the house. Oklahoma hits 108 in the summer and -4 in the winter with all kinds of dusty winds, hail, sleet... I don't know if any paint will hold up much more than 10 years.
I've got two houses I painted 8 years ago with Duration and they still look good, so I have my hopes up.
 

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Paintist
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Discussion Starter #24
A- I let my first coat dry overnight, typically if I get the first coat on in a full day I am doing good. Even after over night drying you still gotta watch the tackiness. The second coat is sprayed and back rolled just like the first but it usually goes a little farther than the first coat.
 

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Painting & More
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Thanks Andyman. On the tacky issue? Duration dries so fast, I could recoat it before moving my ladders!!!
 

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Duration ext flat recommended spread rate 250-300' per gal 2.8mil DFT

Superpaint ext flat recommended spread rate 350-400' per gal 1.6mil DFT


This is info from their data sheets

http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=640392239

http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=640345203
This is weird, because it doesn't match the interior spec sheets. It's almost as if Duration exterior is a completely different product. Duration interior matches SuperPaint at 4.0 mils wet and 1.6 mils dry, and with the same spread rates of course.
 

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Paint Store Owner
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This is weird, because it doesn't match the interior spec sheets. It's almost as if Duration exterior is a completely different product. Duration interior matches SuperPaint at 4.0 mils wet and 1.6 mils dry, and with the same spread rates of course.
It is, which is why its almost double the price.
 

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Born To Be Mild
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4,956 Posts
If you read the TDS sheets you will see that Duration covers just a little more than half of what the same amount of Super Paint covers. In other words, it is so thick that you are essentially putting on the equivilent of two coats of paint in one coat.

SW has sell sheets that spell out what the warranty covers. (I have them in the car for both Duration and Resilience)

To make sure you are putting on Duration at the correct thickness you will need a Mil gage.

Yes, I think that one coat of Duration properly applied will last as long as two coats of Super Paint.

I am with worky on the Resilience. I have been using it since it came out on exteriors and have had no problems.
 

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I use a *lot* of Duration and believe in it enough that I put it on my own house 3 years ago. Still looks freshly painted. One coat of Super WILL NOT last nearly as long as Duration. Depending on environmental conditions, it may only go 5 years. I know this from experience, too, as I have a customer who intentionally repaints every 5 years, so doesn't bother paying the premium for Duration. And after 5 years, it looks like it's ready to be painted!

Forget the lifetime warranty. While the paint may hold up forever, there will be some reason (caulking opening up, squirrel damage, mildew staining, etc) to repaint before the paint fails. But look at it this way, if it extends the life of the paint job from 7 years to 10, or from 10 to 15, the extra dollars per gallon are well spent. Sell *that* to the customer! Build your credibility with them, then paint their interior and their neighbors'.

Lastly, I have seen painters quote "one coat of Sherwin Williams 25-year Superpaint", and I turn this against them by telling the customer to check the SW warranty because it specifically specs 2 coats for the warranty to be in effect. When I tell them anyone who quotes it as above is being fraudulent, guess who doesn't get the sale?
 

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I always bid two coats. And I do believe that Duration is good paint and will help land a job more easily than Superpaint. However, Duration will cause existing oil paint to buckle more easily than Superpaint will.

Exterior oil is no longer available in my neck of the woods, so I have to somehow adapt and still be able to offer a warranty.
 

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Duration one coat DFT is 2.33 mils. A page in a newspaper is 3.0 mils thick. Duration is not all that it is said to be.
It's exactly what it's said to be. The thickness of newspaper has absolutely nothing to do with it - what a ridiculous red herring. SuperPaint is 1.6 mils.
 

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Painting & More
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564 Posts
What do you suggest?????

Several people on this forum are seriously anti-SW, anti-Duration..., anti-...

If none of it is good, what do you think is? It's cool. I am just open to opinions with some reasons behind them.

Example, off and on, I use DAP caulk. EVERY time I use it (today, for example) it continues to run out of my dripless caulk guns after releasing trigger. I even back the plunger off and it still oozes. The point is, I have a reason, though unscientific, for why I don't like DAP.
 

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Several people on this forum are seriously anti-SW, anti-Duration..., anti-...

If none of it is good, what do you think is? It's cool. I am just open to opinions with some reasons behind them.

Example, off and on, I use DAP caulk. EVERY time I use it (today, for example) it continues to run out of my dripless caulk guns after releasing trigger. I even back the plunger off and it still oozes. The point is, I have a reason, though unscientific, for why I don't like DAP.
I suspect there are a lot of reasons, I've used both PPG Manor Hall Timeless and have crews that prefer working with PPG and some that prefer Duration. The ones that like Duration think it builds better, the ones that don't think it gets gummy too fast (and it can if you overwork it). Some don't like it because it blows out the tips faster (it does, especially if they use a '13 tip and crank the pressure up to get enough material through to lay down a decent coat -- note to self: check tips on rig used by crew I'm calling back up for a job tomorrow).

Regarding SW as a business, I like that where I work there are several stores conveniently located, the staff is knowledgable, they almost always have what I need in stock, they do a great job with color matches, I can call orders in for Foremen to pick-up an hour later (try doing *that* at Home Depot), and they are retail oriented if I need to send a customer there. I'm in a good SW region, others may not be so lucky.

Also, for what I pay for their paint, I think it's a great value, especially compared to, say BM. Someone who pays a lot more for the same SW products may have a very different opinion though.

At the end of the day, there are lots of sound reasons for individual preferences. I suspect there's also a lot of "Ford vs. Chevy" going on. But this should spark some interesting posts!
 

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I suspect there's also a lot of "Ford vs. Chevy" going on.
Definitely. It's like one guy's driving a Pinto and the other a Corvette, and you hear "Ford sucks, Chevy's are great". Or vice versa.

When I hear "Sherwin Williams paint sucks, Benjamin Moore is clearly the best", I just laugh. There is no such thing as Sherwin Williams paint. There is SuperPaint. There is Designers Choice paint. There are application problems and there are tough colors and scenarios. One guy puts candy apple red of Designers Choice in satin over white and it takes 4 coats, and another guy puts beige over off-white flat SuperPaint. You are not comparing candy apples to candy apples.

I had a guy today pick up a gallon of Valspar white and immediately started bitching about how crappy Valspar was because it was runny and not covering. Turns out he was using a can someone had thinned for the sprayer (rightly or wrongly). People form opinions for the most ignorant reasons sometimes.
 

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By the way I was looking at a Sherwin Williams display today, selling Duration. You could scribble with washable marker on Duration on the left and regular flat on the right, and then wipe them off. Duration definitely came up cleaner. But of course the trick is that "matte" is actually eggshell (the sheen was obvious), so they're cheating. It doesn't come in flat (interior at least). Notice the weasel words:

"This flat finish is great for hiding surface imperfections, while its angular shine helps make walls smooth and washable."

It's flat, yet it has shine!
 

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Born 2 Paint
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I have seen plenty of my Super Paint exteriors still looking good after 10 years. I rarely do one coat. Mostly SW Super Paint for me. Been using SP since it hit the market. Used A-100 prior to SP back when it was still an 8 yr paint. I've also applied my share of Duration too. I do two coats no matter what the product. Recently statred using BMs "Aura" too on jobs with deeper colors and also the referals the local BM dealer has been giving me. (two just in the last week) Matter fact, if the BM dealer keeps passing me jobs I may just go with BM exclusively. But, even with a good product like Aura, still two coats. ;) Back rolling or back brushing depends on the substrate. 95% of my exteriors are HardiPlank and I dont back roll those. I currently offer a 3 yr warranty and have been considering increasing it to 5 yrs.
 
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