What do you suggest?????

Several people on this forum are seriously anti-SW, anti-Duration..., anti-...

If none of it is good, what do you think is? It's cool. I am just open to opinions with some reasons behind them.

Example, off and on, I use DAP caulk. EVERY time I use it (today, for example) it continues to run out of my dripless caulk guns after releasing trigger. I even back the plunger off and it still oozes. The point is, I have a reason, though unscientific, for why I don't like DAP.

 

Several people on this forum are seriously anti-SW, anti-Duration..., anti-...

If none of it is good, what do you think is? It's cool. I am just open to opinions with some reasons behind them.

Example, off and on, I use DAP caulk. EVERY time I use it (today, for example) it continues to run out of my dripless caulk guns after releasing trigger. I even back the plunger off and it still oozes. The point is, I have a reason, though unscientific, for why I don't like DAP.

I suspect there are a lot of reasons, I've used both PPG Manor Hall Timeless and have crews that prefer working with PPG and some that prefer Duration. The ones that like Duration think it builds better, the ones that don't think it gets gummy too fast (and it can if you overwork it). Some don't like it because it blows out the tips faster (it does, especially if they use a '13 tip and crank the pressure up to get enough material through to lay down a decent coat -- note to self: check tips on rig used by crew I'm calling back up for a job tomorrow).

Regarding SW as a business, I like that where I work there are several stores conveniently located, the staff is knowledgable, they almost always have what I need in stock, they do a great job with color matches, I can call orders in for Foremen to pick-up an hour later (try doing *that* at Home Depot), and they are retail oriented if I need to send a customer there. I'm in a good SW region, others may not be so lucky.

Also, for what I pay for their paint, I think it's a great value, especially compared to, say BM. Someone who pays a lot more for the same SW products may have a very different opinion though.

At the end of the day, there are lots of sound reasons for individual preferences. I suspect there's also a lot of "Ford vs. Chevy" going on. But this should spark some interesting posts!

 

By the way I was looking at a Sherwin Williams display today, selling Duration. You could scribble with washable marker on Duration on the left and regular flat on the right, and then wipe them off. Duration definitely came up cleaner. But of course the trick is that "matte" is actually eggshell (the sheen was obvious), so they're cheating. It doesn't come in flat (interior at least). Notice the weasel words:

"This flat finish is great for hiding surface imperfections, while its angular shine helps make walls smooth and washable."

It's flat, yet it has shine!

 

I have seen plenty of my Super Paint exteriors still looking good after 10 years. I rarely do one coat. Mostly SW Super Paint for me. Been using SP since it hit the market. Used A-100 prior to SP back when it was still an 8 yr paint. I've also applied my share of Duration too. I do two coats no matter what the product. Recently statred using BMs "Aura" too on jobs with deeper colors and also the referals the local BM dealer has been giving me. (two just in the last week) Matter fact, if the BM dealer keeps passing me jobs I may just go with BM exclusively. But, even with a good product like Aura, still two coats. Back rolling or back brushing depends on the substrate. 95% of my exteriors are HardiPlank and I dont back roll those. I currently offer a 3 yr warranty and have been considering increasing it to 5 yrs.

 

Duration deep base exterior

I have seen plenty of my Super Paint exteriors still looking good after 10 years. I rarely do one coat. Mostly SW Super Paint for me. Been using SP since it hit the market. Used A-100 prior to SP back when it was still an 8 yr paint. I've also applied my share of Duration too. I do two coats no matter what the product. Recently statred using BMs "Aura" too on jobs with deeper colors and also the referals the local BM dealer has been giving me. (two just in the last week) Matter fact, if the BM dealer keeps passing me jobs I may just go with BM exclusively. But, even with a good product like Aura, still two coats. Back rolling or back brushing depends on the substrate. 95% of my exteriors are HardiPlank and I dont back roll those. I currently offer a 3 yr warranty and have been considering increasing it to 5 yrs.

Speaking of deeper colors, Duration deep base seems much thinner to me. Is it, or is it my imagination? Awfully runny today as I was backbrushing over previously painted rough cedar.

 

I think SW makes great paint. It is a s good as anyones or better. Problem is it is too damn expensive. I find it hard to believe that SW superpaint is any better than Valspar or Behr "premium" paints. The difference is ten bucks a gallon. I'm paying 28.99 for PM200 and that is with my 10% discount. The stuff is just as thin as the Valspar 2000, just 10$ more a gallon. The SW managers are telling me that all their paints are "tested" unlike Behr and Valspar. Whatever. I'm tired of getting the "high pressure" but kissing at SW. I'm a contractor.I don't need it. I appreciate any advice on product info but come on. Sad thing is SW owns Purdy, but I can buy Purdy bvrushes cheaper at Lowes and Home Depot.

 

I don't have any issues with the quality of these paints. I believe they are durable and last even if I question the can's warranty. I also believe in proper prep and proper application of two coats. My issue is more of a pricing strategy. The way I price two coats of SP vs one coat of Duration (following label directions on a repaint). If I win a bid with two coats of SP my profits are much higher than when I win a bid with one coat of Duration. Duration's warranty makes it easy to upsell but decreases my profits. With this same theory I can easily lose bids due to others specing one coat of Duration vs my two of SP. I was curious how others handle this change in profits and product specs or maybe your pricing strategies are different or maybe you only spec Duration.

 

Most of the exterior work I do I price for one coat of primer(usually oil if over exsisting oil) and one coat of a good latex like Duration. If the exisisting wood is oil, I like to "modernize" it by priming with oil and topcoating with latex. I never chance putting latex finish over oil finish. I like a flat dull substrate to aplly the latex to.

 

Any thoughts on pricing/profits and strategies with one coat and two coat systems? How can you be competative with a two coat system when there are one coat systems like Duration?

 

These are tough questions, and ultimately I think the answers depend on what the norms are in your market, and what premium you can command over "Joe's Generic Painting".

I do a *lot* of Duration work because a lot of my business is in a newer part of town where the homes are just coming up for their first re-paint and homeowners don't usually change the color that much. More important, many of my competitors sell one-coat jobs. So the market in this part of town is conditioned to expect that. So I position two-coat jobs as being for either old & weathered, new construction, or drastic color changes. Trying to sell two coats always would put me at a huge disadvantage and price me out of a *lot* of work. So I sell one coat jobs using Duration. It's either figure out a way to make it work with some kind of decent margins or don't do many exteriors.

So on to how to price one coat Duration jobs. One school of thought says just price it like you would any other job (Labor, Materials, Overhead, Profit). In this case, the materials cost will be higher, so your price will reflect what you need to cover that, and then labor, overhead, and profit are what they would be anyways. Another school of thought says that you should be able to charge a premium for the value of the greater life expectancy of the better paint.

For example, if your market allows, you could sell along these lines: "Mr. Customer, I have two proposals for you. The first is to paint your home with one coat of XYZ paint at a cost of $3,000. I know from experience that this will only last about 5 years in this climate, so your per year cost is $600. My second option is to paint one coat of Duration at $4,500. Forgetting the lifetime warranty, let's say this lasts just 10 years. Your per year cost is now just $450 *and* you won't have to go through the disruption of having your home painted again as soon. Don't you agree that is worth the premium?". Note that I said "if" your market allows. If all of your competitors are simply tacking on the increased metarials cost, you will have a hard sell using this approach.

One last thing to consider when pricing one coat jobs vs. two coat jobs: You will complete the one-coat job faster and move on to the next job. So be sure to look at the big picture over time, not just the fact that you make less on each job. Be sure to show a profit on each job, but don't put too much pressure to make a killing on every job. It may work out that an "acceptable profit" on lots of jobs works out better for you than a killing on only a few.

And again, all this needs to be considered along with what your market will allow you to do. I'd love to get a 50% "value premium" for Duration jobs, but my market just won't allow that. Yours might though.

 

Interesting take on it.

 

Local- that is exactly what I was trying to get at. I agree with you as my primary market is like yours in that we are doing the first repaint. I also like how you break the systems down into cost per year based on the average repaint schedule and not mentioning the can's warranty. I appreciate the detailed response as it clearified well and gave me some pointers to sell on.

 

Most painters in my area say spray and back roll is 2 coats. HA!

Duration is tough to get used too. I used to have some guys that used in exclusively when doing repaints until it got over $50 per gallon. Funny how that will change your opinion. We used to sell a ton more superpaint but now everyone is telling me it doesnt cover as good. Then again I know we have said we have reformulated a-100 and most commercial guys like it now. Who knows?

It is kind of like fishing lines- ever wonder why bass pro shops has a 40 ft shelf full of different brands of line? It is all about what you have confidence in.

 

Most painters in my area say spray and back roll is 2 coats. HA!

Some painters around me think it's using both horizontal and vertical motions. :jester:

 

yeah 8 years here in missouri two, 5 years for a house with superpaint, duration is def. better

 

I paint in Winchester VA where there are many older homes. Quite a few have the large porches with tall columns. I have been using a two coat system with duration paint on these homes for over 6 years and I am very pleased with the results. The columns weather well and hold the sheen with duration.

Some contractors don't trust the fact that you can prime bare wood with Duration. But I have found that it really works as a primer as well....:thumbsup:

 

Use Duration, Always. It will make your life easier and come out great. Not to mention you can charge a premium.

 

This thread is 10 yrs old. Just saying. Reviving these old threads is annoying the heck out of the regular members.
Pay attention to the dates. That goes for everyone!

 

I used to do the 1 coat or 2 coat bid, I gave up a long time ago. My proposals state "apply 1-2 coats as needed to cover existing color and surface" We pretty much put two coats on all surfaces, regardless of the product used, exception are boxed eaves unless they are dark and going white. As a professional, two coats is always the standard. Most of the time, with brush and roll, duration is a little streaky and needs the second. Spray it looks pretty good.

 

If your changing colors a must. Too too often if forget to quote two coats , end up doing it to have things look right. Duration is a great product but I would only use it on hard substrates that don;t expand and contract. I just stripped house (cedar lab siding) with diamabrush because customer was sold on Duration / yeah duration works great for a while - but when it goes to ****/ you got mess on your hands. I would use quality spot primer and resilience as a final coat.

 

Always quote to make it look right. Never just do your two coats, and if it looks like ass, try to charge more.

The less hassle you are to deal with, the more work you get. I'm rarely the lowest bidder, but a lot of places are now only weighing the lowest bid as 50% of the qualifications. Experience, references, etc, are becoming more important than just the price.

 

I just received an email from the forum that I haven't posted in a while and that my last post (this thread) received 130,000 views! I thought I'd drop by and say hello and follow up.
I use Duration and Emerald the most on exteriors these days. I sell one coat jobs for same or similar colors in good shape, and I push two coat systems if heavily weathered or changes in colors. I still see a lot of painters saying they use 2 coats but in reality, it's just one. I also find property owners not knowing what other companies offered in terms of coats which I find amusing for the money they are about to spend.

 

I just received an email from the forum that I haven't posted in a while and that my last post (this thread) received 130,000 views! I thought I'd drop by and say hello and follow up.
I use Duration and Emerald the most on exteriors these days. I sell one coat jobs for same or similar colors in good shape, and I push two coat systems if heavily weathered or changes in colors. I still see a lot of painters saying they use 2 coats but in reality, it's just one. I also find property owners not knowing what other companies offered in terms of coats which I find amusing for the money they are about to spend.

Thanks for checking in!

 

Its more about paint thickness than number of coats, it just confuses homeowners, as the way the paint is applied also is a factor.