[daArch]

Not sure this is the right section for this, and if it ain't one of the mods can move it.

One of my painter buddies (one of the two Peters I mentioned in another thread) was at Easter dinner at my wife's uncle's house (Peter's wife and my wife are good friends since birth, and his mother-in-law ........ oh forget it, it's too lengthy to explain)

Any way, he was saying how all the paint stores are REALLY hurting. They are seeing VERY little traffic during this economic slow down. And the traffic that has stopped is the low and middle-low end furriners. He went on to say how many of the Brazilians are packing up and going home.

So perhaps this down turn will do some good in the longer run. Apparently it is like a stiff wind separating the wheat from the chaff. The illegals are being blown away.

Not to turn this into a bashing of the illegals, but have you guys noticed a thinning of the herd ?

 

[slickshift]

Hope's Dashed, Brazilians Going Home

See the article
Hope's Dashed, Brazilians Going Home
from around Christmas time, reprinted here
http://www.painttalk.com/showthread.php?t=860&highlight=Brazilians

With the house painting industry, it's pretty impossible to give someone who's not local to me a real sense of how HUGE the legal, and illegal, immigrant workers in my area affect someone trying to run a painting business

I'm sure every area has it's issues
But it's pretty overwhelming out here
There is a sense of if you can't beat 'em, join 'em in the biggies
ALL the big guys have major, major, quantities workers of the immigrant type, legal, illegal, questionable, and unknown
As they leave and the economy slows down, they are simply reducing crews
Many of the foreign lead crews are simply leaving

Unfortunately, for every good quality foreign outfit there were many horrid ones that are simply leaving a de-valued professional, and disgruntled customers, in their wake

 

[vermontpainter]

And sadly, for every immigrant that leaves, there is an American who has been painting for 5 years whose boss' operation is slowing a bit, so instead of getting 40 hours they are getting 36. So they decide this might just be a good time to go out on their own. Their boss was paying them $12 and by golly they can make $20 on their own...then they join painttalk and in their first post ask us all how to get work.

 

[slickshift]

.then they join painttalk and in their first post ask us all what to charge

Fixed it for ya

...for every immigrant that leaves, there is an American who has been painting for 5 years....

Actually, I was thinking there's not quite a void yet as all the Jimi's Crackhead With A Brush Part-Time Painting Company guys are filling in the econo-class

 

[vermontpainter]

Haha thanks Slick

 

[daArch]

So, I'm not clear (yah, you know how thick I am).

Are the illegals leaving and opening up more opportunities for the legits, or is the economy SO bad, that the rats are leaving the sinking ship and we'll be drowning a little later ?

I thought by the illegals leaving this would remove them from the workforce and availability to enter bids.

 

[slickshift]

The illegals are leaving around here
Hopefully that will help me and others like me
Unfortunately, so far, all they've left is a consumer base with unrealistically low price expectations

It used to be "How much? I can get some Brazillians to do it for half that"
(I'm not making this up...I've heard that almost as much as "I'd do it myself but...")
For now it's "How much? The Brazilians would/yoosta do it for half that"

For the moment it's merely opening up the (extreme) lower end market
Price shoppers only
This is allowing the not quite so quality ops to pick up some work

Hopefully this is temporary, and the middle/high end markets will open up a bit
We'll find out (around here) when crunch time gets here when all the summer people arrive

So, basically, I'll let you know when the rich people get here

 

[AALory]

It seems apparent that the low cost painting market, while attractive to some homeowners, is too weak a crutch for contractors and homeowners to lean on consistently. When things get difficult with the economy, it seems that the only thing any of us can do is to improve. We need to find better ways to make the deal, make the sale, notch up the efficiency and better impress the customers. Everything is more costly now, but there are still a lot of people making money out there ready to remodel or build.
I hold to the hope that this down turn will result in opportunities for contractors serious about every aspect of their operations. We may have to chew the fat for a while, but if we are smart, we can position ourselves to be in an even better position when the economy improves.
Adam

 

[Brian]

I hold to the hope that this down turn will result in opportunities for contractors serious about every aspect of their operations. We may have to chew the fat for a while, but if we are smart, we can position ourselves to be in an even better position when the economy improves.

There are two ways to look at a slowing economy-- as a challenge or as an opportunity. The choice is up to each of us, and the choice we make will have a huge impact on how we do in the slow period as well as how we do when it ends.

Brian Phillips

 

[Joewho]

Not to turn this into a bashing of the illegals, but have you guys noticed a thinning of the herd ?

In vegas, yes.

 

[YubaPaintPro]

Wow. A heavy topic for sure. Not sure anyone really answered your question. I will try...... As a rep, I have certainly seen my customers' crews thin for sure. And yes, the illegal immigrants have been the 1st to "go". Not sure where they are "going", but they aren't on most paint crews.

I have papers since I was born in this great country we live in. But I can honestly say, that I have no idea if my ancestors who came from Sweden/Norway entered this country "legally". I know we were Vikings and did a lot of pilaging and other terrible warrior like activities. I am confident we did not think or care to go to the local "Americans" and ask for "citizenship". We just took it. Not sure if the fact that we now have laws about citizenship make a difference or not.

I am not sure what defines an American these days, all I know is that I love my country and am grateful to the men & women who serve us. Also grateful for the diversity that makes us. Is the simple fact of not being born here, make any of us "less American"?

If it means anything here or not, not sure, but I would fit into the WASP group if we were to label me. (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) I know this term is now not PC, but just thought I'd share.

 

[NEPS.US]

Wow. A heavy topic for sure. Not sure anyone really answered your question. I will try...... As a rep, I have certainly seen my customers' crews thin for sure. And yes, the illegal immigrants have been the 1st to "go". Not sure where they are "going", but they aren't on most paint crews.

I have papers since I was born in this great country we live in. But I can honestly say, that I have no idea if my ancestors who came from Sweden/Norway entered this country "legally". I know we were Vikings and did a lot of pilaging and other terrible warrior like activities. I am confident we did not think or care to go to the local "Americans" and ask for "citizenship". We just took it. Not sure if the fact that we now have laws about citizenship make a difference or not.

I am not sure what defines an American these days, all I know is that I love my country and am grateful to the men & women who serve us. Also grateful for the diversity that makes us. Is the simple fact of not being born here, make any of us "less American"?

If it means anything here or not, not sure, but I would fit into the WASP group if we were to label me. (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) I know this term is now not PC, but just thought I'd share.

Ok..... would you like to come up with a term or name for someone who enters this country illegally, works for low wages, pays no taxes and has no positive contribution to our society. That is unless you call taking work from my family illegally to send the funds outside of this country "American". Or how about someone who was a felon in their birth land and has decided to come here illegally and committs the same crimes here. Not only have they commited crimes against "Americans" but you and I have to pay for their incarceration. Should we even talk about terrorism?

I have no problem with anyone looking for a better life and entering this country legally and paying taxes. I welcome it.

 

[daArch]

The issue of ILLEGALS is definitely a "sensitive" subject, and one that can easily turn this thread into one that gets moved to the Politics & Religion forum (oh that's right, we don't got one here ....... yet).

But the Nepster put it accurately, albeit with some intones of frustration/venom :thumbup:

Hey, I'm a WASP too, and my ancestors were part of an early boat load of "illegals". But since that gray day in December of 1620 and after we wiped out the REAL North Americans with our gunpowder and smallpox, we did establish a nation with laws. Most of us here are the proud descendants of immigrants who landed and learned the language and paid their dues. All we ask of those who follow is that they play by the rules and not "conquer" this land again.

 

[Tmrrptr]

There are two ways to look at a slowing economy-- as a challenge or as an opportunity. The choice is up to each of us, and the choice we make will have a huge impact on how we do in the slow period as well as how we do when it ends.

Brian Phillips

I shall quote Brian when I run across some of those 500,000 folks who have gone into foreclosure and lost their homes.

I'll tell them what an opportunity it is to be living in a van, down by the river.

Got the note from George in the mail today... even those who have not had a reason to file taxes, should, this year, to get up to $600 from the fed. by golly, that will spur the economy! $600 will bring big opportunity.

It's only 20% of a house payment, around here, though.

 

[Tmrrptr]

The financial meltdown is only going to get worse.
There must be a reason for it to improve.
So far, there is not.
The top CEO's of the companies that lead the way into this subprime mess are personally doing quite well, and are even getting raises on their salaries.
I would not feel good about blowing my own horn if everyone around me was in desperation.

If there are in fact, 12 million illegals here, it will be an extreme problem having that many unemployed on the streets.
From what I've heard, there are worse problems south of the border.

I remain amzed that Gates has such a fascination with helping those on the dark continent... and clooney is on that bandwagon also, along with others.

Perhaps we should get our house in order, first.

 

[vermontpainter]

I shall quote Brian when I run across some of those 500,000 folks who have gone into foreclosure and lost their homes.

I'll tell them what an opportunity it is to be living in a van, down by the river.

rrmpttrr

Seems you are taking a statement that was made in a specific context and applying it to something else entirely.

 

[daArch]

Tmrrptr,

Without agreeing or disagreeing with your observations and opinions, I gotta say that your comments are either treading awfully close to political statements OR will spur others into making political statements. Yes I know you were responding to other posts. And that's part on my point - these things start growing like wild fires if not dampened early

Having started the thread, I would hate to see it degenerate into a political commentary and be locked by the mods.

Thanks all for the self restraint.

-Bill

 

[YubaPaintPro]

Very well said Bill.

 

[HomeGuardPaints]

It seems to me that illegals are going to be in a better position than more legitamate companies, because they will win on price, which is what many people are concerned about right now.
(I lost a bid the other day over $29.00, the woman said that she liked me more but every penny mattered. He was using behr and i was using duration. wonder where the difference came from.) off rant:

All legal companies can do is lean up their operation, learn where to cut expenses that can be passed on to the customer and market aggressively.

BUT if you look at the economy, its really not that bad. (Aside from some poor planning by people in the subprime market). It may seem bad because you read about it every day or compared to the last 3-5 years. But I think that if you looked back to the early 90's and even some in the 80's you will realize that its not so bad. Before long it will be the media's agenda to push economic growth and recovery, then we will see a pick up in spending. (herd mentality) Until then lean up and survive, your business will be better for it in the long run.


Sorry if this seems long, just wanted to get a few things off my chest.

 

[Alex PCI]

I still want to know where people get the idea that the economy is bad? Is it the news, is it the local painters feeding these lies? I quit watching the news 5 years ago... my life, health, marriage and business has prospered 10 fold.

Its amazing how one story on the news can change your outlook that day. Maybe you don't buy that new van, maybe you don't invest in a certain stock, maybe you don't hire a new employee just because someone said the economy is bad. The fact is... the sun that rises today will rise tomorrow, and it will rise 10 years from now as well.

All I see with a so called economic downturn is positives. Not only will it weed out less viable contractors, but people will be more willing to put money in the homes they have to add value to them. I have a direct mailing I send out that advertises that message, and the feedback has been good