[vermontpainter]

We talk alot about listening to and understanding our customers as a way to improve our businesses. Lately, I have also been finding it more and more necessary to listen to my employees. I use that term as it applies to any model out here: a one man show with a helper, a business that uses subs, an owner running one or more crews of any combination of painters. Even a flat out one man show, listen to yourself.

We all have obstacles on a daily basis which challenge our ability to become more successful. The opportunity to improve our productivity lies within...right where the rubber hits the road. At that level, there are the two opposing forces of: factors that help the crew to be more successful, and factors that hinder effectiveness. Quietly, the painters are challenged by these forces daily. Some come from within, and some from without. Implementing policies and procedures driven soley by job-costing or budget monitoring can serve to further impair the painters' ability to serve the customer well.

In todays competitive climate, we are driven to become more effective on all fronts and improve productivity. Because we all know, we dont want to lower prices to remain competitive. If you sense a gap between where your crew's performance is and where you want it to be, chances are the employees are the ones who can best identify those gaps. I fall into the category of an owner with often 2-3 jobs happening simultaneously in 2-3 towns, and I cant be everywhere at once. Sometimes I cant be anywhere at all. So I am focusing on communication to understand everything that is going on in the field, more than ever.

Anyone else finding their awareness of this issue to be raised lately?

 

[George Z]

The Spirit of the Squirrel
The Way of the Beaver
The Gift of the Goose

Amazon.com: Gung Ho! Turn On the People in Any Organization (9780688154288): Ken Blanchard: Books

Gung Ho! Ken Blanchards brilliant book may have a lot of these answers.
I read it 3 times.

 

[PressurePros]

At this stage of my game, I am my employees. They hold the hold the mortgage on my house, they determine whether my wife and I can eat at Red Lobster or Ruths Chris, they decide whether my children go to private school or public. I have to be aware that if they aren't happy, I have nothing. I think its more than paying them well. I don't have the time to play social worker or engage them on the details of their private lives but I do care what each of them thinks about working for PressurePros, Inc. I try to work with every one of them so they can get to know me and know that I am approachable if they are unhappy. My business is all about them and my customers. The person that signs the checks is inconsequential.

Great post, Scott.

 

[vermontpainter]

I agree, Ken. I had my number one guy, who I am basically building the next few years around kind of explode in frustration on monday morning. By friday afternoon, he was the happiest guy around again...because I took some time with him over the course of the week.

I dont think its a matter of throwing money at them either. I am making more of an effort to show them the big picture in terms of the company and their opportunities for growth and advancement personally within it.
You are right, that we depend on them. Thats why it was a heads up when my guy popped. I had been so immersed in the business, customer, estimating, scheduling and hiring sides of things for the past few months that I was neglecting the actual day to day minutae and the little lingering requests from the field.

Other than the obvious, what strategies have been most successful for you?

 

[George Z]

...a gap between where your crew's performance is and where you want it to be, chances are the employees are the ones who can best identify those gaps.

At the moment our labour budget became primary (but generous),
things fell into place.
There are two reasons a job does not make budget.
1)Bad estimating
2)Poor production

If there is a sizeable bonus built into every job,
production and self supervision works fine.
If the estimators screw up, the painters will let us know, guaranteed!

 

[vermontpainter]

George

Do you keep a separate slush fund that the bonus' come out of, or is it built into the estimate and you tell the painters that if they do it in x amount of time (to the standard of quality) they will make x amount of money? I have a feeling I have asked you this before and the answer was the latter?

 

[George Z]

George

Do you keep a separate slush fund that the bonus' come out of, or is it built into the estimate and you tell the painters that if they do it in x amount of time (to the standard of quality) they will make x amount of money? I have a feeling I have asked you this before and the answer was the latter?

Hypothetical numbers:

The sale price of the job is $10,000

$5,000 is gross profit.

We deduct materials $1,000
Payroll burden of let's say $600
That leaves $3,400 to be had by the painters. The less hours they work, the more they make.
It is divided fairly, based on hourly rate and hours worked.

It gets paid after two pay periods later to cover any possible callbacks.
Bonus is conditional on the completion form filled
and a favourable testimonial received.
Occasionally but not often we don't make budget,
then it comes off the company gross profit, not their guaranteed pay.

 

[crow]

Yea man your doing better than me, I cant seem to make a 1000$ worth of any material,turn into 10,000$ well, nah, forget it.

 

[tsunamicontract]

Hey George, I was trying to figure out a system like that. I was trying to figure it out like if I were to bid it to them at their rate and blah blah blah but your system sounds like it works out quite well. How long does it take to figure out what their bonus could be per job? Or is it just a simple formula you have figured out that you plug in the job info and their payroll info and it figures it out?
I am trying to figure out how to encourage efficiency (working to get stuff done instead of just to work) while keeping things quality oriented. Some people advertise that they only pay their painters hourly to ensure top quality. I think this is only a half good idea though, some combination of the two would be idea. If you could share more info on your system that would be really helpful for me.

 

[George Z]

They are getting paid hourly.
The bonus shows in their paycheque as a bonus(2 pay period later)
Then they get a spreadsheet with their pay:

Hrs worked Wage rate Wages Pay with bonus bonus in pay Effective wage rate

Every hour worked and materials are assigned to a job in Quickbooks and there is a spreadsheet used to calculate the bonus.
I am not the one doing the payroll, I wish I could explain it better,
I am useless with spreadsheets too.

 

[George Z]

Yea man your doing better than me, I cant seem to make a 1000$ worth of any material,turn into 10,000$ well, nah, forget it.

Hypothetical numbers.
Materials are about 11%

 

[vermontpainter]

George

If you dont mind sharing, what is your structure as far as sales and estimating?

I assume you have an estimator or two? How much of the sales and estimating do you do, and how much do you delegate?

 

[George Z]

George

If you dont mind sharing, what is your structure as far as sales and estimating?

I assume you have an estimator or two? How much of the sales and estimating do you do, and how much do you delegate?

Work in Progress (forever it seems)
We now have a full time office manager and office space here:
http://www.aldgategroup.com/offspace.html
We decided to be in an office building, not in a shop, just for the corporate feel.
Then we changed everything to Google Apps By the way, it's free!
With that, we get web e-mail, Google docs and of course their shareable web calendar.
Office manager sets appointments for me (commercial and exterior)
and other salesperson(my wife) residential interior.
Office and sales work out of the same calendar, can (when we are ready) collaborate on proposals, field personel can download change orders, completion forms etc.
We are working on the mobile part of it, I am trying one of these to see if we can put 3-4 in the hands of field and sales.
They are durable and fully functioning laptops that cost about $300 each. The plan is to have internet cards for them and have everyone working out of Google Apps.
The computers come with Linux and I have to install windows.
Then we have to do all our proposals on Google docs.
I am not very computer literate, so we hired some excellent help to help us do all this.

 

[vermontpainter]

Thanks George. Thats quite a system...very professional. Keep us posted on how it evolves. I think its a great model.

 

[greensboro84]

I just posted in another thread about my boss' system. What happens when the lead man can't bid for crap, doesn't give bonus when job is completed early, and docs my pay when not completed on time. Plus he's cutting his own throat, he should be charging 10 more dollars an hour. Alot going through my head this weekend since i figured all of this out, I don't want to leave him hanging in the middle of spring/summer, but I could be making more as a one man show, if i could pick up the jobs. Plus it's a family business, so fam doesn't get doc'd, even though son is the crew leader and gets paid 50% more than i do. It's such a mess, I guess most on this forum don't deal in such low-end work but it's really getting to me, I think it's time to move on. I've reached a point to where I'm no longer learning anything painting wise, and I get cussed for doing things different then they do even if it's more efficient, I dont think i want to work for a family business again. I completed 2 decks on friday that I had been working on, through the sunburn and all, took 2 hours that morning to finish, then what? I get to go home cuz theres no other jobs to work that day. No bonus, just my 2 hours worth of work that I wouldve have charged 3x as much for had i been doing it on the side. Ok im gonna stop cuz im ranting and gettin pissed.

 

[vermontpainter]

Green

I guess that would be a case of the owner not listening to the employees...that is, if you are making suggestions. I personally love it when an employee comes to me with an idea. I dont like to have to be the one doing all the thinking about every little thing all the time.

By the way, didnt you leave him a couple of months ago and end up going back?

 

[greensboro84]

yep, i left, one son is out of commision from a 4wheeling accident, the real pro on our jobs is havin legal trouble, and so i went back. i feel a sense of loyalty, we all live in the same neighborhood and all, but i really cant take much more of it. and i dont see the company growing. its like he's stuck at the beginning stage of company growth and doesnt want to grow.

 

[CApainter]

Why I want to work for you:

1. I want to work for you because you have a good reputation. You operate your company professionally, and promote a level of integrity that I would like to be a part of.

My expectations:

1. .I am looking for a steady paycheck, and understand clearly that your success determines my success.
2. I am eager to apply my skills along with adopting your own system as a means of contributing to the team’s success.

What’s important to me

1. A steady paycheck: Getting paid over the table lends itself to the legitimacy of the company I work for.
2. Time off: Vacation, sick leave, or paid holidays. Knowing I have these options in one form or the other satisfies the need to look elsewhere. I understand there is a probation period to determine if I merit any benefits.
3. I want good leadership and encourage staff meetings as a means of promoting effective communication and team cohesion.
4. My primary goal is to be a productive employee, from there relationships will develop.

Bonuses are a good way to encourage production. However, the employee can also become dependent on them as a supplement to their regular pay. This could lead to a drop in quality for quantity. IMO

 

[vermontpainter]

Why I want to work for you:

1. I want to work for you because you have a good reputation. You operate your company professionally, and promote a level of integrity that I would like to be a part of.

My expectations:

1. .I am looking for a steady paycheck, and understand clearly that your success determines my success.
2. I am eager to apply my skills along with adopting your own system as a means of contributing to the team’s success.

What’s important to me

1. A steady paycheck: Getting paid over the table lends itself to the legitimacy of the company I work for.
2. Time off: Vacation, sick leave, or paid holidays. Knowing I have these options in one form or the other satisfies the need to look elsewhere. I understand there is a probation period to determine if I merit any benefits.
3. I want good leadership and encourage staff meetings as a means of promoting effective communication and team cohesion.
4. My primary goal is to be a productive employee, from there relationships will develop.

Bonuses are a good way to encourage production. However, the employee can also become dependent on them as a supplement to their regular pay. This could lead to a drop in quality for quantity. IMO

You're hired. Even if you cant paint, we will teach you.

 

[CApainter]

Thanks. I'll contact you if I ever move to Vermont.