estimating

5895 Views 19 Replies 15 Participants Last post by tntpainting, Oct 6, 2009

vermontpainter

Discussion Starter · Jan 7, 2008

I have just completed a paint estimate for a residential remodel for a contractor. The specs called for latex trim paint and the existing trim in the house is latex. Some of the doors are getting re-used and some of the existing trim is getting recoated during the remodel. The contractor has now asked me to re-price for oil trim paint. The obvious problems are: matching finishes between the old and new for continuity, don't really feel comfortable putting oil over latex (at least not without significant prep), and oil dry times are so much more difficult to deal with in a remodel environment, especially when the homeowner is living in the house during the project probably quite anxious to start sleeping in their bedrooms again. What would you do with this?

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ProWallGuy

· #2 · Jan 7, 2008

Did you ask him why the change came about. The HO or GC might be trying to base a decision with info from HGTV or some other bunk source.

Also, try to explain to the GC that you are the paint pro, and you should make decisions as to which product would be best suited for the project. If he balks, ask him if he tells his dentist what material to use when he gets a filling. :thumbsup:

vermontpainter

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 7, 2008

Around here there is a snob factor associated with oil, particularly satin impervo. Contractors and homeowners just have it in their heads that its a better finish. Our responsibility these days is to re-educate folks about the movement toward more responsible products. However, we still have to price jobs and try to get them! Maybe I will dig in my heels on this one, because you make a really good point, Pro.

Housepainter

· #4 · Jan 7, 2008

I had a similar situation and did an education on the benefits of the latex over oil base, used some of the paint info from BM on their latex paints.

plainpainter

· #5 · Jan 7, 2008

Oil over latex works great as long as it is Interior and not Exterior - traditional latex interior paints have a hard time sticking to an older oil paint finish - but oil paints stick to anything even with minimal prep. As how to cost it - that's simple. Oil is a pita - it kills production time imo - everything about it is more time consuming - the smaller the job - the worse it is - you paint trim in a one bedroom job - and you are done for the day that's it!

What I do - is after I priced everything for latex - and they want an oil 'upgrade' on my estimates it is 1/3 -1/3-1/3 paying schedule - add in another 1/3 for oil painting upgrade. If they don't like it - walk.

JNLP

· #6 · Jan 7, 2008

Here we can just tell them we don't use it doto the new restrictions against the use of it in order to protect against ground-level ozone pollution.

vermontpainter

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 7, 2008

Here we can do that too but then some jackass grabs a gallon and goes and does the job for a dollar less than us!

PainterKevin

· #8 · Jan 7, 2008

I would try to understand why this guy wants you to use oil instead of latex. The old age of thinking was oil is better than latex, however times have changed. Try to get some literature from your paint rep to take to the contractor and sell him on latex. In my opinion, there really is no reason that you should use oil instead of latex (at least no good reason).

plainpainter

· #9 · Jan 7, 2008

Latex paints are great - but oil on trim still looks better and levels nicer, and is more durable. Now I ain't saying that I nor you can apply latex on trim and not getting it to look world class. It's just that if you ever have hopes of expanding and acquiring more guys - don't expect your 'help' to be able to get that same brushless look applying latex trim paint that you can- they just won't be able to do it - I tried, they don't listen, it always ends up looking 'brushy'.

Brian

· #10 · Jan 8, 2008

plainpainter said:
Latex paints are great - but oil on trim still looks better and levels nicer, and is more durable. Now I ain't saying that I nor you can apply latex on trim and not getting it to look world class. It's just that if you ever have hopes of expanding and acquiring more guys - don't expect your 'help' to be able to get that same brushless look applying latex trim paint that you can- they just won't be able to do it - I tried, they don't listen, it always ends up looking 'brushy'.

I agree. My guys do okay with latex enamels, but they are a lot more comfortable with oil.

The funny thing is, I paint maybe once a year if that, and it's always at my home. I always use latex (SW ProClassic) and I do really well with it. If I tried to use oil I'd have a huge mess on my hands-- I simply can't make it look good.

Brian Phillips

donnag16

· #11 · Jan 17, 2008

:thumbsup: You have to let the contrator know that the oil based paint will smell really bad compared to latex. But latex will be just durable as oil with out the smell. Try to strees your concerns to him and trust me he will listen.

Joewho

· #12 · Jan 17, 2008

The snob factor is hard to get around. There probably is no easy answer without alienating someone.

You could, of course charge to redo all the trim, with prep for oil over latex.

You could explain that the current times call for latex paint and oil is being phased out, maybe even give them some enviornemental literature to scare them with vocs and vacs. Especially if they are living in there. If there are kids, it should be a no brainer.
You could say that you bid it this way and everyone knew about it up front.

None seem to be perfect, but what are you gonna do? I see you want to please them, so it looks like a full repaint on the trim?

vermontpainter

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jan 17, 2008

Joewho said:
None seem to be perfect, but what are you gonna do? I see you want to please them, so it looks like a full repaint on the trim?

Was able to reach a compromise. We are treating the existing and new trim with latex. The only place the builder would not budge was on the closet shelving. They felt strongly that oil would be more durable. Bottom line, we don't have to waste a whole lot of time and money prepping for oil and we dont have to deal with the air quality aspects of using it inside in the winter with all the windows closed...or put the homeowners through it.

Z paint

· #14 · Jan 18, 2008

epoxy could do it

hi im new here. i would of tried to convince him to do and an acrilic epoxy based paint... it is easy to use and clean up like latex but it hardens like oil does..i use mab's paint called hydrocote it works great. i use it on shelves and when im painting over old oil trim...it adheres very well.....although mab is mostly in the philly area i think

plumleydaryl

· #15 · Oct 5, 2009

pro classic latex much better than any oil

Reactions: 1

jack pauhl

· #16 · Oct 6, 2009

I wasn't aware that latex became better than oil. ProClassic? Really?

I think some people (self included) experienced sticky binding latex paint jobs on doors, shelving, windows. Oils don't have that problem but there are many waterbased paints that stick.

johnpaint

· #17 · Oct 6, 2009

plumleydaryl said:
pro classic latex much better than any oil

Pro classic sucks big time.

johnpaint

· #18 · Oct 6, 2009

jack pauhl said:
I wasn't aware that latex became better than oil. ProClassic? Really?

I think some people (self included) experienced sticky binding latex paint jobs on doors, shelving, windows. Oils don't have that problem but there are many waterbased paints that stick.

Jack just get you some water borne DTM and use it on you sticking areas. You will like how hard it is, and does not stick to itself.

aaron61

· #19 · Oct 6, 2009

JNLP said:
Here we can just tell them we don't use it doto the new restrictions against the use of it in order to protect against ground-level ozone pollution.

Ground Level....Ozone....aren't those 2 different things???

tntpainting

· #20 · Oct 6, 2009

Pro classic doesn't suck you just need to work fast with it .it levels out fine and no brush marks are visable if you brush it on evenly one direction just as durable as oil too.

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