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Discussion Starter #1
I have some custom built cedar overhead doors.
I planned to use Sikkens (Proluxe) but the dark oak has a red cast to it.
Proluxe has dropped some of Sikkens colors. Very limited selection now.
I contacted PPG to see if I could use the Cetol 23 over a different stain product.
They literally told me I was on my own. Nice endorsement.
I have used Sikkens thru the years. Good stuff.
I am looking for any input or experience from others OR a product comparable to Sikkens
Help ? Thank you
 

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I have some custom built cedar overhead doors.
I planned to use Sikkens (Proluxe) but the dark oak has a red cast to it.
Proluxe has dropped some of Sikkens colors. Very limited selection now.
I contacted PPG to see if I could use the Cetol 23 over a different stain product.
They literally told me I was on my own. Nice endorsement.
I have used Sikkens thru the years. Good stuff.
I am looking for any input or experience from others OR a product comparable to Sikkens
Help ? Thank you
This thread is to introducing yourself. What's your painting background etc. This forum is designed for professionals. Just so you know.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you.
Been painting for about 40 years. 90 % residential 10 % commercial
Started with exteriors. Now, I only do interior work. I have a shop to do the overhead doors. Body doesn't like being on extension ladders all day anymore.
 

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Monarchski
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I have some custom built cedar overhead doors.
I planned to use Sikkens (Proluxe) but the dark oak has a red cast to it.
Proluxe has dropped some of Sikkens colors. Very limited selection now.
I contacted PPG to see if I could use the Cetol 23 over a different stain product.
They literally told me I was on my own. Nice endorsement.
I have used Sikkens thru the years. Good stuff.
I am looking for any input or experience from others OR a product comparable to Sikkens
Help ? Thank you
Leave it to PPG to mess up a good product. I just don't see the longevity you used to get with the Sikkens products and having to put a "maintenance" coat of clear on every 2 years doesn't make it worth the price and effort IMO. Just use a regular oil stain and put a couple of coats of McCloskey's varnish over it.
 

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I have some custom built cedar overhead doors.
I planned to use Sikkens (Proluxe) but the dark oak has a red cast to it.
Proluxe has dropped some of Sikkens colors. Very limited selection now.
I contacted PPG to see if I could use the Cetol 23 over a different stain product.
They literally told me I was on my own. Nice endorsement.
I have used Sikkens thru the years. Good stuff.
I am looking for any input or experience from others OR a product comparable to Sikkens
Help ? Thank you
Spitballing a couple ideas:

1. Which ProLuxe colors are still available? Maybe you can mix two together to get a color that is better (less red)?

2. I wonder if you can shoot some colorant into the dark oak (just a little) to neutralize the red just a bit? The opposite of red is green, so if you start with just a drop of green and see how it shakes up... It will darken the stain just a little, but will also cancel out the red. (its a last ditch effort to stay with a product you know and like, but it sometimes works). When I do something like this, I usually separate a gallon into 4 quarts. *Note- always creep up on the color, you don't want to overshoot it.

3. Sikkens does not play nice with others. I would not even consider layering one of their products over another product. Just asking for trouble. All or nothing with Sikkens.

4. Any exterior Semi-transparent Deck Stain oil based will also work.

5. Traditional Stain and Varnish (like Spar) will also work, but can be an issue if the customer neglects routing maintenance (eg., spar re-coat about every 2-3 years - sooner if in direct sunlight).
 

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PPG totally screwed the sikkens brand.

If you want to 'tint' sikens products do NOT use universal tints. Use oil ground pigments like japan colors. I would add some blue, not green.
Personally I would use GF exterior 450 stain and a spar varnish or dalys teak oil
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks to everyone. I had someone suggest Penofin. I never used it.
I am guessing a similar maintenance program (2-3 years). The guy dropped 40,000 for the doors so I am trying to make sure he gets the best option for durability and appearance. I had great luck with the Sikkens products thru the years. Any time a company buys another, they are going to make changes to fudge profit margins. Contractors get ambushed by "new and improved " BS all the time. Or formula changes that aren't announced. Then, they can come back with warrantee is no good.
 

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Thanks to everyone. I had someone suggest Penofin. I never used it.
I am guessing a similar maintenance program (2-3 years). The guy dropped 40,000 for the doors so I am trying to make sure he gets the best option for durability and appearance. I had great luck with the Sikkens products thru the years. Any time a company buys another, they are going to make changes to fudge profit margins. Contractors get ambushed by "new and improved " BS all the time. Or formula changes that aren't announced. Then, they can come back with warrantee is no good.
I would put penofin is in the same boat as sikkens, currently they have 3 different versions of each product. Who knows when they'll discontinue whatever you decide to use.
 

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Arborcoat also has some great exterior stains. I'd give the 638 a try. Can add a clear too if wanted.
 

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Arborcoat also has some great exterior stains. I'd give the 638 a try. Can add a clear too if wanted.
IMO the n638 is difficult to apply evenly on smooth woods. Its really designed for rough woods and not as a wiping stain. The translucent w623 apply pretty nicely though, goes on like a tinted poly.
Also the arborcoat clear is being discontinued for some reason.
 

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IMO the n638 is difficult to apply evenly on smooth woods. Its really designed for rough woods and not as a wiping stain. The translucent w623 apply pretty nicely though, goes on like a tinted poly.
Also the arborcoat clear is being discontinued for some reason.
Hmm, maybe if one could get thier hands on the oil base..
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Someone threw a new product at me last night. Rymar has a variety of products.
Anyone familiar with or have input .
 

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We did the following mahogany with Penofin as per the window & door manufacturer’s specs, yet it required quarterly maintenance coatings. The HO wasn’t happy with the thought of having to spend upwards $80K per year on maintenance coatings and ended up having his caretaker bring on his people to prep and coat with Cetol 1 followed by Cetol 23 (burning the garage down in the process). The Sikkens didn’t last a year in full sun w/out looking like chit.

111226

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There’s some better pics/slideshow @ Pella’s Luxury Division’s website (Sagaponack 9th slideshow) @ the following link:

Windows & Doors Projects
 

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Cabots "Log and Siding" might be a good option.

Enhances the grain, and easy to maintain (pictured on Clear Vertical Cedar - "Natural Light", "Butternut", and "Cedar" colors shown):
Requires two coats: One coat to seal, the second coat for build. Costs about $100/gallon.

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111238
 

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Cabots "Log and Siding" might be a good option.

Enhances the grain, and easy to maintain (pictured on Clear Vertical Cedar - "Natural Light", "Butternut", and "Cedar" colors shown):
Requires two coats: One coat to seal, the second coat for build. Costs about $100/gallon.
OP wanted to get away from the red tones hmm...

Really I think sikkens dark oak with with maybe oil ground blue pigment. I would use the sikkens log and siding, I get the feeling they are trying to discontinue the 123 all together.

I've had my own 23 ebony by tinting some clear maintenance with oil ground black pigment i get from dalys
 
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