Good finish, pitting, and orange peel on same door

765 Views 22 Replies 7 Participants Last post by FlawlessFinishRenos, 16 d ago

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · 27 d ago

I have a Titan 1500 controlmax and for the first time in almost 10 years of spraying I busted a seal after just 4 months. It was a huge pain to remove actually had the guard in 4 pieces before I managed to get the seal out. I tried cleaning it and putting it back in but it still leaks. I live in a backwards part of Canada and the only titan products I can get are tips without new seals. So I purchased a graco rac x guard and 417 tip(only one available)

I'm trying to finish a set of cabinets and the craziest thing keeps happening. On the same door I'll get a nice finish then 2 inches over I'll have pitting then 2 inches beyond that I'm getting orange peel. I've attached a couple pics.
I'm using Command paint thinned about 10% with distilled water, vegetable glycerin, and dawn soap( I've used this for 5 years with out an issue)

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FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #2 · 27 d ago

I guess what I'm trying to ask is this

Is there anyway I can temporarily fix the Titan seal? Maybe silicone or something, I'm pretty handy.

Why am I getting this fuct up finish with the rac tip? Would a FF tip change this? I'm sure I've sprayed cabinets in the past with a blue tip though.

I'm tearing my hair out over this job. I should have been done last week.

monarchski

· #3 · 27 d ago

FlawlessFinishRenos said:
I guess what I'm trying to ask is this

Is there anyway I can temporarily fix the Titan seal? Maybe silicone or something, I'm pretty handy.

Why am I getting this fuct up finish with the rac tip? Would a FF tip change this? I'm sure I've sprayed cabinets in the past with a blue tip though.

I'm tearing my hair out over this job. I should have been done last week.

Spraying Command with a 417? A 410 FF is what I use for that product.

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FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #4 · 27 d ago

monarchski said:
Spraying Command with a 417? A 410 FF is what I use for that product.

Yea I would be using a green tip if I could get one. I prefer the hea titan tips but I can't get a seal til Friday.

I'm just about to pull out my flexio to try to finish this set. Either that or air hvlp:shrug:

cocomonkeynuts

· #5 · 27 d ago

You can use regular black Graco, asm or pretty much any other brand tip with your titan guard if you can find the. Anything but Graco racx tips.
417 is too big for command, it's like a firehose

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finishesbykevyn

· #6 · 26 d ago

Theres a website you can order stuff on called Amazon.ca. You're thinning your paint with dawn dish soap?

Reactions: 1

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #7 · 26 d ago

Lol thanks for the advice about Amazon. That's great, I ordered new seal, guard, and tip, but in Canada we don't have overnight delivery Amazon prime only has my stuff coming in on Friday or Saturday. I need to finish this job this week. Dawn dish soap as well as vegetable glycerin break the surface tension of liquid making it flow better. Ghetto floetrol for a fraction of the cost. I only use one drop per 2 liters. It works great along with the VG.

cocomonkeynuts

· #8 · 26 d ago

Why are you thinning command at all? It's already a ready to spray viscosity. The orange peel your seeing is from too large of a tip and not atomizing properly as well as your likely over applying product.

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FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #9 · 26 d ago

I'm a pretty consistent sprayer. Same speed same overlap, and since I usually hang doors my passes are very fast. I'm getting a good finish(proper amount of paint), pitting(not enough paint), and orange peel(too much paint) on the same pass. I tried un thinned Command and Advance for a couple years and much prefer the finish from thinned paint. I've used it over a year on a cpl hundred kitchen sets and never had an issue. I'm not a fan of the extended open time, but like the finish better. I also find the thinned paint covers grain up better as well.

I also find with the 1500 since it only reaches 1600PSI that I have to spray un thinned command at 5. I like to spray about 4 so I have some wiggle room. Command base 4 is thicker than base 1

cocomonkeynuts

· #10 · 26 d ago

FlawlessFinishRenos said:
I'm a pretty consistent sprayer. Same speed same overlap, and since I usually hang doors my passes are very fast. I'm getting a good finish(proper amount of paint), pitting(not enough paint), and orange peel(too much paint) on the same pass. I tried un thinned Command and Advance for a couple years and much prefer the finish from thinned paint. I've used it over a year on a cpl hundred kitchen sets and never had an issue. I'm not a fan of the extended open time, but like the finish better. I also find the thinned paint covers grain up better as well.

I also find with the 1500 since it only reaches 1600PSI that I have to spray un thinned command at 5. I like to spray about 4 so I have some wiggle room. Command base 4 is thicker than base 1

Are you measuring with a wet mil gauge? Because it looks very heavy. What you describe are the results you'll get from command with a big tip. Command needs 410 or like 308.

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FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #11 · 26 d ago

I've never heard of a wet nail Guage. I laid the paint on super thick as I've already hung these doors and the customer was unhappy. They want that super thick paint look in a high gloss. I despise gloss for cabinets. It's biting me in the ass.

I'm trying whatever I can to finish this job. This job normally would be 5 days for me it's gonna run 15 with all this bs.
Shot a door with a flexio NG. I'm contemplating using an air hvlp with a 2mm tip bit I just read a post by you saying it's NG as well. I'm tearing my hair out

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #12 · 26 d ago

I'm honestly thinking about jb welding the seal in place and then throwing a bead of silicone.

New tip and guard won't be here til saturday

RH

· #13 · 26 d ago

I understand that you feel you need to finish this job this week, but it’s been my experience that all of the hard deadlines I faced over the years were most often self imposed and usually weren’t all that hard once I reevaluated them. So, if at all possible, I would suggest you take a big breath and wait for your parts to arrive so you can properly finish the job.

And unless you have a 5 stage professional grade unit, as well as successful experience in using it, I would NOT recommend you try and finish with an HVLP unit. You will be opening up a whole new level of frustration that will make what you are experiencing now seem minor in comparison.

Contact your customers and give them a head’s up that you are experiencing equipment issues beyond your control. Hopefully they will appreciate and understand your situation (especially since they likely also experience issues like you do in not being able to get some items locally or quickly) and that you are trying to do what you need to do to give them a professional job.

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finishesbykevyn

· #14 · 26 d ago

You say you've sprayed a 100 sets of cabinets? If you think a 417 tip is appropriate for spraying cabinets, you have a lot of homework to do on this subject. I spray with a 208fflp. Order in the proper parts and quit messing around.

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FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #15 · 26 d ago

finishesbykevyn said:
You say you've sprayed a 100 sets of cabinets? If you think a 417 tip is appropriate for spraying cabinets, you have a lot of homework to do on this subject. I spray with a 208fflp. Order in the proper parts and quit messing around.

I believe I said I've sprayed close to 1000 sets. Maybe you should read before speaking. I've said many times in this thread that the 417 was the only tip available to me at the time locally.

My tip of choice for cabinets is a 311 hea tip

finishesbykevyn

· #16 · 26 d ago

FlawlessFinishRenos said:
I believe I said I've sprayed close to 1000 sets. Maybe you should read before speaking. I've said many times in this thread that the 417 was the only tip available to me at the time locally.

My tip of choice for cabinets is a 311 hea tip

My apologies. Ok 1000 sets. With that kind of experience, I think you already know the answers to your questions. Now might be a good time to order some "backup tips " so you don't have to spray with a 417.

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fromthenorthwest

· #17 · 26 d ago

RH nailed it on the head. What is the deadline? This is clearly a situation that's out of your control, and any reasonable client should understand this. It sounds like a couple days off might be the best thing for you right now anyway, and then you can come back with a proper tip and a fresh perspective.

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FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #18 · 23 d ago

RH said:
I understand that you feel you need to finish this job this week, but it’s been my experience that all of the hard deadlines I faced over the years were most often self imposed and usually weren’t all that hard once I reevaluated them. So, if at all possible, I would suggest you take a big breath and wait for your parts to arrive so you can properly finish the job.

And unless you have a 5 stage professional grade unit, as well as successful experience in using it, I would NOT recommend you try and finish with an HVLP unit. You will be opening up a whole new level of frustration that will make what you are experiencing now seem minor in comparison.

Contact your customers and give them a head’s up that you are experiencing equipment issues beyond your control. Hopefully they will appreciate and understand your situation (especially since they likely also experience issues like you do in not being able to get some items locally or quickly) and that you are trying to do what you need to do to give them a professional job.

Yes this is what I had to do. I only take on one job at a time at this point so its a hard week for me

finishesbykevyn said:
My apologies. Ok 1000 sets. With that kind of experience, I think you already know the answers to your questions. Now might be a good time to order some "backup tips " so you don't have to spray with a 417.

I shouldn't have been a dick and I apologize.
I learned to spray in a very large company and they had a spray line that would hold 100 faces. They would be loaded on the line I would spray them they went into an oven and then I'd spray the 2nd coat. 4-600 faces a day for almost 4 years.
Just from my records which I wasn't doing in the beginning and I've lost quite a few, this set will be the 193rd set I've done in the last few years.

fromthenorthwest said:
RH nailed it on the head. What is the deadline? This is clearly a situation that's out of your control, and any reasonable client should understand this. It sounds like a couple days off might be the best thing for you right now anyway, and then you can come back with a proper tip and a fresh perspective.

Yes good advice.

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Hissing Cobra

· #19 · 17 d ago

Dawn dish soap in paint? First time in 36 years of painting that I've heard that one. Many contractors use it in their drywall mud too and it causes all the tape seams to pull apart. Not sure I'm into the dish soap idea.

FlawlessFinishRenos

Discussion Starter · #20 · 17 d ago

Green dawn dish soap and vegetable glycerin both work as surfactants. Water based paint thinners use water and a blend of surfactants. Ive tried dawn, vg, blue antifreeze, and other things. I know a bit about chemistry and after many trials ive found that dawn and vg work best. When you lower the surface tension of paint it covers better. Only issue I have is it extends the open time.

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