[kanadaeh]

Hello all,
I am currently working on an estimate but I am having trouble with the wording. It is kind of a unique situation that I have never been involved with before. I get a call for touch ups on someone else's paint job. He explains to me that the general for his house was either fired or quit. I go look at the job. He has a three page list detailing touch ups in each room. His lawyer recommended he receives three quotes as he still owes the general half of the total project but had breached his contract by not completing his work, whatever. Anyways, he says that has nothing to do with me as he will be paying me regardless of the situation. I understand because we live in a small community (population 150,000) and for legal reasons he had not told me who did the work I knew right off. Let's just just say they have a growing reputation for this type of thing. Touch ups include: caulking trim properly, patching some terrible patches, sanding paint goobers off the ceiling, missed spots on trim, and they had switched paint brands half way through the job resulting in very noticeable touch ups. After sleeping on it I think the only way I can do this is to estimate for a complete paint job. I can not see myself going in and doing touch ups and how would I even estimate something like that. So I am asking for some help wording this quote so it looks like a business man wrote it and not a painter. Basically I would like to state as many reasons as I can think of why I would rather not touch up and it would make more sense to repaint. I appreciate any help.
Jason

 

[vermontpainter]

"In order to achieve the solid coverage and uniform color intensity that are standard for new construction, one final finish coat is required...surfaces blah blah prep blah blah blah skim blah sand blah blah vacuum blah tack cloth blah blah caulk..." You get the picture.

 

[timhag]

Apparently you have your price worked out for the job, or am I wrong? The reason I ask this is because you are only looking for the wording, correct?

 

[timhag]

............Sanding, scraping, caulking, patching, and priming will be done where needed.................

 

[vermontpainter]

............Sanding, scraping, caulking, patching, and priming will be done where needed.................

You forgot the blah blah blah words words something something blah blah

 

[timhag]

blah blah blah Sanding, scraping caulking, patching, and priming will be done where needed blah blah blah lol

 

[kanadaeh]

Apparently you have your price worked out for the job, or am I wrong? The reason I ask this is because you are only looking for the wording, correct?

I know what I would charge for a repaint of this size but I usually do 2 or 3 coats. In this case it would only need one coat but I do not think pricing would be much different as a lot of the work is in set up, clean up, etc. So it would be close, if not the same as a regular repaint. Also, they would be paying for a professional to fix up a hacks work so they should expect professional rates. I will treat it like any other project including a signed contract.

 

[kanadaeh]

"In order to achieve the solid coverage and uniform color intensity that are standard for new construction, one final finish coat is required...surfaces blah blah prep blah blah blah skim blah sand blah blah vacuum blah tack cloth blah blah caulk..." You get the picture.

Now that's what I'm talking about!
I think I will start out with "Due to" and describe all the problems they have and this is how I will solve them. Good stuff,
Thanks

 

[vermontpainter]

You have to separate yourself from the situation. If we took into account every reason why every homeowner needs us to "take it easy" on them, we could work for free every day. Tough situation, but the professional thing to do, for yourself and the homeowner, is to price appropriately. People sometimes think that pricing is a subjective thing, and the general stance we are up against is the customer saying (not usually outloud): "You are a good painter, and I hope you make lots of money. Just don't make any here."

If you think this homeowner is disgruntled now, roll in there with a low price and give them yet another bad experience and see how upset they get. This is a great opportunity for you.

 

[kanadaeh]

You have to separate yourself from the situation. If we took into account every reason why every homeowner needs us to "take it easy" on them, we could work for free every day. Tough situation, but the professional thing to do, for yourself and the homeowner, is to price appropriately. People sometimes think that pricing is a subjective thing, and the general stance we are up against is the customer saying (not usually outloud): "You are a good painter, and I hope you make lots of money. Just don't make any here."

If you think this homeowner is disgruntled now, roll in there with a low price and give them yet another bad experience and see how upset they get. This is a great opportunity for you.

This is not my first estimate and I know what I have to charge to run a business. I was simply asking for some help with wording this estimate. In fact, I could probably charge double for this job and get it but I'm not out to "crack the sh*t out of em" lol. You see, the homeowner had said he still has half the balance owed to the general contractor. I'm guessing this is probably about 35-40k. So as long as I don't go over this figure and its justifiable in court, it's all good. Just kidding of course. I will charge accordingly like every other project I do.

 

[Brian]

I agree that a repaint is called for. Trying to do a touch up job is an invitation for disaster. I would explain that to the customer until they were tired of hearing me talk. My rule in such situations: CYA. You can't lose money on a job you don't do, nor can you alienate a customer. Explain what must be done and why. If they choose to ignore you, that is there problem.

People sometimes think that pricing is a subjective thing, and the general stance we are up against is the customer saying (not usually outloud): "You are a good painter, and I hope you make lots of money. Just don't make any here."

I love it when I can address this with a customer. It is a chance to really differentiate my company.

My response goes something like this: "I'm not trying to get rich off of you, but I do need to make a profit. If I don't make a profit I can't afford to stay in business, and then I wouldn't be around to provide you with the high quality service you expect. That's why most contractors go out of business-- they don't make a profit." That pretty much disarms people and/ or leads to an interesting conversation. Either way, they know I am not the typical paint slinger.

Brian Phillips

 

[vermontpainter]

I would explain that to the customer until they were tired of hearing me talk. Brian Phillips

Quote of the day goes to Brian once again! haha

We should explore this phenomenon. I know that when I am talking, this generally occurs withing about 90 seconds. I am better off referring people to our website, where they actively participate for almost 4 minutes.

I'll be back, gotta go put my sales pitch on the homepage right now before I forget!

 

[kanadaeh]

I agree that a repaint is called for. Trying to do a touch up job is an invitation for disaster. I would explain that to the customer until they were tired of hearing me talk. My rule in such situations: CYA. You can't lose money on a job you don't do, nor can you alienate a customer. Explain what must be done and why. If they choose to ignore you, that is there problem.
Brian Phillips

Actually, price is not an issue on this project. The first contractor who made the mess is actually a high priced designer trying to be a contractor. There prices are usually about twice as much as any other contractors in the city. Not that theres anything wrong with that but people perceive the high price as value only to find out other wise. For instance, they said this project would take 4-5 weeks when it actually took 22 weeks and still is not complete! Anyway, this homeowner does not care about price and just wants the project done. I told him he needed a complete repaint and he replied " Your the professional, that's why I called you. " The reason I wanted to choose my words wisely in the estimate was in case it wound up in court the judge would know and understand why I completely repainted rather than touch up. And just for the record, I try to let it be known in my neighborhood that we are the Rolls Royce of painting and there is no such thing as the going rate. That is why I was called in to fix this mess.

 

[vermontpainter]

Actually, price is not an issue on this project.

We shouldnt have any problems here if you present and execute properly.


The first contractor who made the mess is actually a high priced designer trying to be a contractor.

Funny, usually it goes the other way around!

 

[kanadaeh]

The first contractor who made the mess is actually a high priced designer trying to be a contractor.

Funny, usually it goes the other way around!

Ya, she actually has a local TV show and a furniture store which helps draw in clients. I guess she figured she does the designing, she might as well make some off the contracting as well. From what I hear she will simply request quotes from all trades, add them up, take the total and double it, add 10-15% and submit that price to the homeowner. She also requests half of the balance before she begins work so it will not cost a cent of her own money to finance the project. A great system if she knew how to manage the projects. Unfortunately everything gets done a*s back words and takes twice as long ticking off everyone involved. But she is great at marketing and branding. If she had someone experienced and capable of managing projects, she could make some really good scratch! Also this is not the first project that this happened on, I have been hearing stories for about two years now. It just goes to show you that low prices are not the only reason contractors fail at business.

 

[Brian]

Actually, price is not an issue on this project. The first contractor who made the mess is actually a high priced designer trying to be a contractor. There prices are usually about twice as much as any other contractors in the city. Not that theres anything wrong with that but people perceive the high price as value only to find out other wise. For instance, they said this project would take 4-5 weeks when it actually took 22 weeks and still is not complete! Anyway, this homeowner does not care about price and just wants the project done. I told him he needed a complete repaint and he replied " Your the professional, that's why I called you. " The reason I wanted to choose my words wisely in the estimate was in case it wound up in court the judge would know and understand why I completely repainted rather than touch up. And just for the record, I try to let it be known in my neighborhood that we are the Rolls Royce of painting and there is no such thing as the going rate. That is why I was called in to fix this mess.

You seem to be in pretty good shape, other than the wording of the contract. I guess that's why you asked. Without knowing specifics, it's hard for me to comment, but Scott had good suggestions.

You might also consider consulting an attorney. This seems like a case where the money would be well spent.

Also, have good communications with everyone before the contract is signed. That can eliminate a lot of problems.

Brian Phillips

 

[Dixie Soak]

I would go in with a full job site annalysis that clearly details the state the property is currently in (room by room, individual walls if you must ). This would be an annexure to the contract or quote you submit, effectively forming part of the contract. This is agreed to upon execution by both parties, If not walk away.

In the quote breakdown you reference directly to the JSA. The JSA is where you recomend solutions for each concern you identify and the ideal way it can be recitfied either by room,floor or building. This saves explianing your reasoning in the quote and provides excellent working papers with a documented starting point. Include clear photographic evidence in the JSA to substantiate your reasoning.

Good Luck