[beacon painting]

I have been painting for 20 plus years and I am still having problems with hourly vs. square foot pricing.What do you guys think.

 

[Brian]

Beacon,

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I use both in my estimating. I use the surface area (square feet) to determine the hours required, and then use my hourly rate to determine the price.

Brian Phillips

 

[PressurePros]

Brian, so in effect, aren't you utilizing a square foot method since I am assuming your hourly rate doesn't vary? Or, are you saying you factor man hours and each job requires different sized crews?

 

[plainpainter]

Ken - it's not uncommon when using 'Area' to figure out how many hours it will take to do a job - we as painters assign 'difficulty' factors - so we don't have to adjust our 'hourly' rate. So it isn't really a 'square-foot' method in the end. Let me give you an example.

Say you come up with a 'production' rate to paint a flat surface such as plywood. And you can paint 150sq.ft. per hour. And now you have figured from your accountant that your company needs $44/hr to stay profitable. So you would price the painting per coat at about $0.29/sq.ft. not including materials. Now say you have a clapboard siding - and again you compute you have 150 sq.ft. of clapboard siding - what we do is assign a 'difficulty' factor, say assuming it takes you 25% longer to paint the same amount of area of clapboard than plywood - we measure the actual area then multiply by our 'difficulty' factor of 1.25 - so now we have a 'fictitious' amount of 187.5 sq.ft. - we now apply our 'company' rate that does not change of $44 - now that same job which would have cost $0.29/sq.ft now costs almost $0.37/sq.ft or $55 instead of $44.

We use area coupled with our production rates to forecast how long a job will take and then compute the hourly rate we need - And like I demonstrated - the same amount of area can contain more difficult and time consuming surfaces - the easiest being plywood, then the next hardest would be plywood - and then the most time consuming surface to apply a coating would be shakes. And 'difficulty' factors allow you to maintain the same company rate when factoring in the more difficult substrates.

 

[HomeGuardPaints]

3 days X 2 men= 48hrs

48 hrs X hourly charge(Say 50 per)= $2400

Materials/.85= material cost

Materials + Labor= total

total/sq ft= sq ft price

It doesnt really matter how you charge because its going to(should) come out the same every time.

 

[Brian]

Ken - it's not uncommon when using 'Area' to figure out how many hours it will take to do a job - we as painters assign 'difficulty' factors - so we don't have to adjust our 'hourly' rate. So it isn't really a 'square-foot' method in the end. Let me give you an example.

Say you come up with a 'production' rate to paint a flat surface such as plywood. And you can paint 150sq.ft. per hour. And now you have figured from your accountant that your company needs $44/hr to stay profitable. So you would price the painting per coat at about $0.29/sq.ft. not including materials. Now say you have a clapboard siding - and again you compute you have 150 sq.ft. of clapboard siding - what we do is assign a 'difficulty' factor, say assuming it takes you 25% longer to paint the same amount of area of clapboard than plywood - we measure the actual area then multiply by our 'difficulty' factor of 1.25 - so now we have a 'fictitious' amount of 187.5 sq.ft. - we now apply our 'company' rate that does not change of $44 - now that same job which would have cost $0.29/sq.ft now costs almost $0.37/sq.ft or $55 instead of $44.

We use area coupled with our production rates to forecast how long a job will take and then compute the hourly rate we need - And like I demonstrated - the same amount of area can contain more difficult and time consuming surfaces - the easiest being plywood, then the next hardest would be plywood - and then the most time consuming surface to apply a coating would be shakes. And 'difficulty' factors allow you to maintain the same company rate when factoring in the more difficult substrates.

I agree with the essence of this, except rather than adjusting the area and coming up with a "fictious" amount of area, I adjust the hours required to do the work. The end result is the same, except when I give the crew their hours it matches up. In other words, rather than seeing 150 sf adjusted to 187.5 sf they see 1 hour adjusted to 1.25 hours. So both the sf and the hours match with the actual job.

Brian Phillips

 

[Dmax Consulting]

PlainPainter and Brian got it spot on. Before you give a price, figure out all your expenses and add margin.

 

[blackstone]

...I often tell my clients they have a choice between a written quote and an hourly wage. I tell them that we can do the work and bill fairly when its done, or I can write up a proposal for them. It helps to let them know that you've had happy customers with both approaches...

 

[scholarlypainting]

...I often tell my clients they have a choice between a written quote and an hourly wage. I tell them that we can do the work and bill fairly when its done, or I can write up a proposal for them. It helps to let them know that you've had happy customers with both approaches...

i tried offering customers an hourly rate... this usually led to hawk eyed, clock watching customers that bicker over whether i am charging them for lunch or not.

 

[acrylicrecoating]

I agree hourly just means that the customer is unsure of the final cost and could lead to upset customer. A written estimate puts in writing exactly what they can expect and how much it will cost to get that result.

No arguments if it is in writing!:thumbup:

We have also made our estimates dummy proof with included or not included check boxes and an area for notes so that each and every problem may be covered.

 

[blackstone]

Developing a solid client base that will vouch for your integrity can help to ease people's minds about an hourly rate, which often works well for the client and for you - the job often gets bigger when they are pleased with your progress which benefits you both!

 

[JNLP]

Trust nobody. :thumbup:

An interesting read with some pretty valid points.
http://www.markupandprofit.com/articles_2.html