[DeanV]

I really have not had to deal with being underbid very often. Lately it is happening quite a bit more and by large percentages. For example, I just priced a repaint of a den, living room, dining room (two colors), lower and upperhall with stairway, master bedroom, master sitting room including all the trim, doors, windows, and crown in all the rooms except the master has no crown. The den has two small bookcases. Trim was for one coat, walls 2 coats of BM Regal line. The previous paint job was a hack job so I planned on running a finish sander over all the trim to help smooth it out a bit. I priced it as $3950 another painter priced it as $1450. This kind of thing is happening more lately. I figure materials for the job will run around $5-600. Hopefully, I just have had a bad run of bidding lately, but I am concerned that prices seems to be tumbling in my area. I am thinking that the last two winters have been really slow for a lot of painters, last summer was not great and this summer will probably not be stellar either so I lot of painters are getting desperate.

Do you guys have a strategy for trying to win over a customer even with such a price difference?

 

[vermontpainter]

As alot of us say, sell the value, which in this case is the fact that Mr.$1400 is circling the drain slowly on his way out of business and probably doesnt know it quite yet. Consumer education. The value of an established company that will be around to stand behind the work and serve them again in the future.

You do have to prepare for the reality that sometimes its "just paint" and they will take the lowest price no matter what. Those are good people to not have in your customer base.

 

[timhag]

Yesterday I gave a bid to a couple of $3880.00, the day b 4 they had another contractor come in at $2640.00. I got the job,they said they knew I was their man 10 mins after meeting me due coming highly recommended.

 

[DeanV]

I guess I will have to work on my pitch, but the other price is so obviously hack but I do not want to come across as attacking the other guy. Shoot, based on the hours I based my estimate on, he bid it at $10/hr. I figure it costs me $15/hr to work by myself in overhead. I could not even paint the walls for that price.

 

[Dave Mac]

Yea I get those a lot, one thing I like to do, is turn the telescope around. After preparing and going over a totally professional estimate with the client, and they throw that at me, I tell them i would wonder how a true proffessional can go that low to. Works sometimes and and sometimes it doesnt. But i like to create the question in their mind, how can someone do this project so low. the guy throwing that low ball number around usually gives his estimate on a generic estimate form bought at stables.

 

[timhag]

Also, gave a bid to another lady. Claims I was much higher than the other bid. Even after giving the ole sale pitch, she ended going with the other company. Know what I say about those people, F*ck em.

 

[DeanV]

I am tempted to respond to her email and point out the prep level I plan on, remind her to make sure that all of the same trim work is included, and also mention that I could not pay an employee minimum wage and pay for the materials at that price.

 

[timhag]

I am tempted to respond to her email and point out the prep level I plan on, remind her to make sure that all of the same trim work is included, and also mention that I could not pay an employee minimum wage and pay for the materials at that price.

I always tell them to compare apples to apples.

 

[MAK-Deco]

I am tempted to respond to her email and point out the prep level I plan on, remind her to make sure that all of the same trim work is included, and also mention that I could not pay an employee minimum wage and pay for the materials at that price.

Give her a follow up with your descriptions of work to be performed and sell it, if she doesn't change her mind, move on can't do much more then that.

 

[HomeGuardPaints]

Maybe you could send a revised proposal removing the sanding of the trim, I imagine that this is a rather large part of your estimate(15-25%) that might be the difference shes looking for. BTW most people who are about the price wouldn't be able to tell if you sanded the trim prior to painting or not so they can't understand the value in it, therefore by omiting it you can get in the same park. we all know the low guy isn't doing this extra work so why does your bid include it. Its hard sometimes, but every now and then you have to bid to the prospect and not your normal level of service, just like you would for a spray out apt. vs a 8000 sq foot mansion. Notice the difference and adjust accordingly. my 2-3 cents

 

[timhag]

a 8000 sq foot mansion.

I'm hearing this could be done in 5 hours with 2 guys.:yes:

 

[vermontpainter]

I'm hearing this could be done in 5 hours with 2 guys.:yes:

$500 if you supply the materials.

 

[HomeGuardPaints]

"I'll beat any writen bid by 5%":jester:

 

[timhag]

http://www.painttalk.com/showthread.php?t=1065&highlight=********

 

[NEPS.US]

You might have to work on your sales techniques. Sell you and your company and make them believe that no one else can make their home look better. I did 5 estimates last night. All 5 I priced at my normal rates knowing that these people had at least 2 more bids coming in. I explain what we do in detail and also explain where corners can be cut if I were to give a lesser price. This lets them know why and how my competitors can come in 25 - 50% below me. I also have work going on and leads coming in everyday which gives me the luxury to stick to my prices.

You also might want to work on your marketing too. Try to bid more jobs at a higher rate and begin to cherry pick your work. It takes time but is worth it. All of us get undercut by fly-by-night painters everyday. It's our responsibility to educate our clients on why they are so low. Some people will not care and look only at the bottom line and they are not the people I'm trying to attract.

 

[timhag]

I explain what we do in detail .

Same here, not only do I write everything down from start to finish, I read and explain every detail to the customer.:thumbsup:

 

[vermontpainter]

I actually like being underbid. I take great pride in being the high bidder. Not artificially high...just real prices. Very rarely have I ever won a job as the low bidder. Anytime I have been told I was the low bidder I get a sick feeling in my gut and the job is usually a nightmare. Once in a while its a swing and a miss.

Its especially fun to walk away from the cheap homeowner as the genuinely high bidder when you have priced it right and they know it. They saw you measure every room, and saw the other two bidders eyeball it. They saw you write extensive notes as you looked at it while the others just talked. They received your promo packet followed up by a formal estimate, while the other two scratched it on the backside of a wrinkled business card...and on and on.

 

[Bushdude]

I actually like being underbid. I take great pride in being the high bidder. Not artificially high...just real prices. Very rarely have I ever won a job as the low bidder. Anytime I have been told I was the low bidder I get a sick feeling in my gut and the job is usually a nightmare. Once in a while its a swing and a miss.

Its especially fun to walk away from the cheap homeowner as the genuinely high bidder when you have priced it right and they know it. They saw you measure every room, and saw the other two bidders eyeball it. They saw you write extensive notes as you looked at it while the others just talked. They received your promo packet followed up by a formal estimate, while the other two scratched it on the backside of a wrinkled business card...and on and on.

You measure every room with a tape? You can't be serious? I'm rolling on the floor with laughter!!! Your not installing windows or drapery. A simple walk off of a room with each step being 3 feet is sufficient for painting purposes.

 

[GMack]

I really have not had to deal with being underbid very often. Lately it is happening quite a bit more and by large percentages. For example, I just priced a repaint of a den, living room, dining room (two colors), lower and upperhall with stairway, master bedroom, master sitting room including all the trim, doors, windows, and crown in all the rooms except the master has no crown. The den has two small bookcases. Trim was for one coat, walls 2 coats of BM Regal line. The previous paint job was a hack job so I planned on running a finish sander over all the trim to help smooth it out a bit. I priced it as $3950 another painter priced it as $1450. This kind of thing is happening more lately. I figure materials for the job will run around $5-600. Hopefully, I just have had a bad run of bidding lately, but I am concerned that prices seems to be tumbling in my area. I am thinking that the last two winters have been really slow for a lot of painters, last summer was not great and this summer will probably not be stellar either so I lot of painters are getting desperate.

Do you guys have a strategy for trying to win over a customer even with such a price difference?

I had a very similar situation this winter: three bedrooms, small bathroom, upstairs hall, stairwell, downstairs entry. I price about $4000. Someone else comes in slightly lower. I know this because I followed up with the homeowner who says he thought the job could be done for about $1,000. I explain to him that, with about $400 in materials, that would leave one day's worth of labor for my helper and myself. Not possible. He says that that makes sense but that he's going to do the job himself. Ceiling, walls, trim, pretty significant drywall repairs. Now I don't even want the job so I let a couple of weeks go by and I e-mail him to see how it's going. "Great," he says. "My nephew came over yesterday and we knocked it out in a long day." He's a liar but what are you going to do? Some jobs are much better off when they aren't your's.

As far as selling your job, I agree with a lot that's already been said. You know that quality job you are going to give them. Make sure they know it, too. Don't try to be a slickster salesmen if you aren't one. Just make sure they understand the scope of work that you are proposing as compared to the next guy. Be yourself, but if you believe in your price/project proposal as the right combo, try like heck to make them believe too.

BTW, it was the guy's interior designer who told him that the job could be done for $1,000!

 

[vermontpainter]

You measure every room with a tape? You can't be serious? I'm rolling on the floor with laughter!!! Your not installing windows or drapery. A simple walk off of a room with each step being 3 feet is sufficient for painting purposes.

Keep walking bushy...after all, in another thread your philosophy was, and I quote: "Good job, bad job, same price" regarding the use of latex primer on top of wallpaper. You're a smart one.