[remodelandpaint]

Second guessing my rates after recently being underbid substantially. Granted, it's winter, and granted, some guys just are much lower priced. We tend to be upper middle to high priced, I'll admit that.

That said, current project is a complete remodel. No home owner contents, place is empty, it's almost like new construction.

Ceilings need 2 coats, I plan to spray
Walls need prime + 2 coats, I plan to brush & roll after trim package
Trim package needs prime, caulking, 2 coats, I plan to spray

Some prices per square foot would be helpful... I know we're all a bit different.
Some prices for individual units would also be helpful, again, I know there will be deviation.

Price per door SLAB to prime and 2 coat?
Price per door frame (casing & jamb, both sides) to prime, caulk, 2 coat?
Price per 6 over 1, double hung window of average size... maybe 2' wide by 3.5' high. Hardware to come off, sashes get removed, tracks must be protected.

I'm happy to share my current rates but don't want to skew your answers.

Thanks for any help. You'd think after 12 years of doing this I wouldn't have any hesitations... but alas, I'm human!

 

[straight_lines]

Ceilings would be around .75 a square to spray two coats.

How many square feet of wall space?

LF of trim? Types?

Number of doors and types? $95 per each to caulk fill, sand and apply two coats to standard Masonite 6p.

Number of windows? About $45 each to caulk fill, sand and apply two coats to casings and returns.


Built ins?

Impossible to give a square foot number without know all that including your material costs.

This is a great book on estimating.

 

[goga]

If the job pays bills, why complain? Winter is outside. Wait till sun it out, that pound back.

 

[goga]

Ceilings would be around .75 a square to spray two coats.

You have to be kidding, 200' sf of floor plan on top will take around 3 gallons of paint in two coats, that's 120$ along, and for two hours to make 30$?

 

[Epoxy Pro]

Second guessing my rates after recently being underbid substantially. Granted, it's winter, and granted, some guys just are much lower priced. We tend to be upper middle to high priced, I'll admit that.

That said, current project is a complete remodel. No home owner contents, place is empty, it's almost like new construction.

Ceilings need 2 coats, I plan to spray
Walls need prime + 2 coats, I plan to brush & roll after trim package
Trim package needs prime, caulking, 2 coats, I plan to spray

Some prices per square foot would be helpful... I know we're all a bit different.
Some prices for individual units would also be helpful, again, I know there will be deviation.

Price per door SLAB to prime and 2 coat?
Price per door frame (casing & jamb, both sides) to prime, caulk, 2 coat?
Price per 6 over 1, double hung window of average size... maybe 2' wide by 3.5' high. Hardware to come off, sashes get removed, tracks must be protected.

I'm happy to share my current rates but don't want to skew your answers.

Thanks for any help. You'd think after 12 years of doing this I wouldn't have any hesitations... but alas, I'm human!

There is a new very low ball bidder around here. They are 75%+ lower than every one else. Yes I have seen some estimates from our competition. Our biggest competitor is like us and pissed. We had been getting our normal prices until this company showed up.

 

[lilpaintchic]

Well at 75% lower, they probably won't be around very long, cd. lol

 

[NotAChemist]

There is a new very low ball bidder around here. They are 75%+ lower than every one else. Yes I have seen some estimates from our competition. Our biggest competitor is like us and pissed. We had been getting our normal prices until this company showed up.

If you've been around, you know they'll either come and go or they'll raise their rates to put bread on the table. Eventually the bills they aren't paying catch up to them and they go away.

 

[Epoxy Pro]

Well at 75% lower, they probably won't be around very long, cd. lol

I hope not. They are killing us. We have lost a ton of work to them.

 

[straight_lines]

You have to be kidding, 200' sf of floor plan on top will take around 3 gallons of paint in two coats, that's 120$ along, and for two hours to make 30$?

Materials are a line item that gets marked up. I would also spray the first coat, then spray and back roll the second cutting at least an hour off. So for one hour of actual work I would make close to $150 off your theoretical ceiling. This is why giving square foot prices aren't really helping someone when they mean something different.

 

[thinkpainting/nick]

All depends where you are located but it's sad the rates I see thrown out here were no different than 20 years ago.

We get underbid daily . I've done 10 estimates and got 2 last couple weeks . It's not always winter that does it. Sometimes they HO just don't know where they want to spend there money. Painting is not always high on the list.

Winters are always tough here and most PC will work for monkey food. Some just want to get away from the wife or husband :whistling2: Some hav'nt a clue WTh they are doing .

 

[thinkpainting/nick]

I hope not. They are killing us. We have lost a ton of work to them.

Once word gets out there's allot of work in your area it's only going to get worse. We have 4 franchises here that advertise heavy on radio , DM , and everything in between. They use subs no employees most are illegals not all but most. They have salesman and estimator most have zero experience in painting. But that's the new norm today being sold. You don't need any just go get the work the rest will work itself out.

It's no fun beleive me I lost two not one of my best accounts because of low price and the promise from them of great service. Now more than likely they will fold up but that could take a few years . In the mean time they chew up allot of work that could be mine and others. That's the paint life always has been but more competitive than ever now. All you have to do today is watch YouTube buy a brush Van and your a PC.

I have to get way more leads than ever to sell a new job even if referred it's still not a slam dunk by any means. There are those who will say well, learn to be a better salesman, your presentation needs work, you don't market to the right customers blah blah blah. Might be true but all things being equal for the majority of HO price is and always will be king. Rant over :notworthy:

 

[fredo]

This is pretty sad on our end...and as we get rejections more frequently lately, especially in commercial tenant make-readies, I always say to myself: you get what you pay for. Which when it comes to com. tenant finishing, price seems to not matter.

Pricing is an ever-growing concern for us. I'm hoping it will pass....soon.


Fred
http://dqpainting.com

 

[Damon T]

I'm trying to focus more on repeat and referral work since winter is really tough bidding against others when the HO doesn't know you.
I think if we share production rates as opposed to SF rates it will work better, as the hourly rate in the Seattle area is bound to vary from the hourly rate elsewhere. Up or down. And certainly the repaint people I'm bidding against right now are cutting prices about 50% from summer rates.
I try no to slash prices too much, but then I don't have a lot of painters to keep busy, and haven't been doing a great job keeping my current painters busy in January. February is looking much better.
New 6 panel doors, including trim, both sides, prep, fill and paint. 3-4 hours each. Multiply by your hourly rate. Now a lot of guys will be like "dude I can paint that in 45 minutes total", probably not but keep in mind that has to include all the various setups and clean ups and misc things that you can't line item. So if you are billing at $50 per hour then a door and trim would be $150 to $200.
Baseboard prep fill and paint. 2-3 coats. 20 LF per hour so @ $50 say $3.00 per LF. Typically base is factored at around 50-60 LF per coat, so if you break it down into multiple coats, plus materials you come in at 20 or so.
Walls, typically 300 SF per hour. However you have to again take into account all the setup , masking etc. These aren't NC prices. NC prices are rock bottom around here. remodel or repaint we typically see 100SF per hour including all the setup stuff. So like SL posted, around $.75 to $1.00 per SF @ $50 per hour.
I've been shooting for $50 per hour lately, sometimes more or less. Our summer rates are higher. And like I said bidding for past clients is a much better chance of getting it than for new people.

 

[Damon T]

By the way shouldn't a mod come along and shut this down for pricing?! What a bunch of lazy bums! ;-)

 

[remodelandpaint]

Are we not supposed to talk prices? Oops!!! I should probably read the fine print about these forums...

 

[remodelandpaint]

I'm trying to focus more on repeat and referral work since winter is really tough bidding against others when the HO doesn't know you.
I think if we share production rates as opposed to SF rates it will work better, as the hourly rate in the Seattle area is bound to vary from the hourly rate elsewhere. Up or down. And certainly the repaint people I'm bidding against right now are cutting prices about 50% from summer rates.
I try no to slash prices too much, but then I don't have a lot of painters to keep busy, and haven't been doing a great job keeping my current painters busy in January. February is looking much better.
New 6 panel doors, including trim, both sides, prep, fill and paint. 3-4 hours each. Multiply by your hourly rate. Now a lot of guys will be like "dude I can paint that in 45 minutes total", probably not but keep in mind that has to include all the various setups and clean ups and misc things that you can't line item. So if you are billing at $50 per hour then a door and trim would be $150 to $200.
Baseboard prep fill and paint. 2-3 coats. 20 LF per hour so @ $50 say $3.00 per LF. Typically base is factored at around 50-60 LF per coat, so if you break it down into multiple coats, plus materials you come in at 20 or so.
Walls, typically 300 SF per hour. However you have to again take into account all the setup , masking etc. These aren't NC prices. NC prices are rock bottom around here. remodel or repaint we typically see 100SF per hour including all the setup stuff. So like SL posted, around $.75 to $1.00 per SF @ $50 per hour.
I've been shooting for $50 per hour lately, sometimes more or less. Our summer rates are higher. And like I said bidding for past clients is a much better chance of getting it than for new people.

Wow, I am nearly to the penny with you on all these price points. Now, do you find your price per linear foot for baseboard to drop quite a bit if you're able to spray them? I think I'm just getting caught up on "shouldn't spraying be faster" notion and I just don't see it cutting down that much in the price and hours... I can only spray so much (ceilings, trim), and I only gain on the application time... offset by prep, so it's like a wash.

Walls by the way, we typically divide paintable area square feet by 150sq ft per coat production speed, for average rooms (this includes all overhead tasks, setup, cleanup, etc... like an "all in" rate so long as the job is big enough to hit stride). For 2 coats then, its square feet divided by 75. We lower this for anomaly rooms like kitchens and baths, or hallways with a lot of cutting. So again, right with your thinking.

 

[thinkpainting/nick]

I'm trying to focus more on repeat and referral work since winter is really tough bidding against others when the HO doesn't know you.
I think if we share production rates as opposed to SF rates it will work better, as the hourly rate in the Seattle area is bound to vary from the hourly rate elsewhere. Up or down. And certainly the repaint people I'm bidding against right now are cutting prices about 50% from summer rates.
I try no to slash prices too much, but then I don't have a lot of painters to keep busy, and haven't been doing a great job keeping my current painters busy in January. February is looking much better.
New 6 panel doors, including trim, both sides, prep, fill and paint. 3-4 hours each. Multiply by your hourly rate. Now a lot of guys will be like "dude I can paint that in 45 minutes total", probably not but keep in mind that has to include all the various setups and clean ups and misc things that you can't line item. So if you are billing at $50 per hour then a door and trim would be $150 to $200.
Baseboard prep fill and paint. 2-3 coats. 20 LF per hour so @ $50 say $3.00 per LF. Typically base is factored at around 50-60 LF per coat, so if you break it down into multiple coats, plus materials you come in at 20 or so.
Walls, typically 300 SF per hour. However you have to again take into account all the setup , masking etc. These aren't NC prices. NC prices are rock bottom around here. remodel or repaint we typically see 100SF per hour including all the setup stuff. So like SL posted, around $.75 to $1.00 per SF @ $50 per hour.
I've been shooting for $50 per hour lately, sometimes more or less. Our summer rates are higher. And like I said bidding for past clients is a much better chance of getting it than for new people.

Great post Damon I know I get old all,the times I post about the costs that go along with painting and production. We all get tired as the day goes on no painter will produce the same among of trim, walls, ceilings , all day long . That's another factor to,look at.

Case in point , today we (3 of us) painted a kitchen, living room( first floor) and a bedroom ( 2nd floor end of long long hallway). We only painted the ceilings. Lots of patchng from water damage. It cost more and took more time to setup, move, replace and clean up than it did to paint the ceilings. Your production rates are pretty much on point for RP work.

Tomorrow we have 10 windows along with 3 very deep( Patriot logo colors on wall) . The windows need a ton of caulking and the red and blue colors will at least take 3 Aura RS or not on walls. Factor in dry time travel time setup etc etc. all effects production. :yes: sorry if my grammar spelling is off .

 

[PNW Painter]

It's always interesting to hear how other painting approach estimating jobs. Many of the repaints I've worked on in the last two years have so many unique variables that I've found it very hard to use production rates to estimate jobs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wolfgang]

You know you're getting old when you can walk into a room and say to yourself; "Thats a $400 room, that's a $600 room, that's a $200 ceiling, etc.", and still make a decent profit. Exteriors weren't much different.

 

[straight_lines]

I still measure and double check once in a while but that's pretty much how I bid room painting.