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Recent threads have contained posts that cast aspersions on many people. Those posts said, some more explicitly than others, that successful businessmen are dishonest crooks. I completely disagree with that characterization.

But more significantly, such claims imply that one must choose between virtue and success. According to that thinking, if success is evidence of dishonesty and evil, then poverty and failure are signs of virtue. Again, I completely disagree.

While there are certainly individuals who achieve material success through dishonesty and fraud, they are exceptions. And they are almost always exposed and brought to justice. (See Enron for an example.)

And there are many individuals who are very virtuous and do not achieve material success.

I hold that virtue—honesty, integrity, justice, productiveness, and pride for example—are the only legitimate means to material success. I hold that virtue is indeed practical, if happiness on earth is considered practical (which I do).

Business success is not an easy accomplishment. It takes years and years of hard work. It requires dedication and perseverance. It requires will power and self-motivation. It requires self-confidence. It requires treating others fairly.

A con man lives in the short term. He seeks easy prey. He does not create value, he only seeks to extort it. He lives for today, because tomorrow he needs another victim. And tomorrow he will be hiding from yesterday’s victim.

A businessman lives in the long term. He seeks to build relationships. He creates value for his customers, because that is how he achieves material success. He lives for the future, and delays today’s consumption so that tomorrow may provide a feast. And he stands proudly before the world, with his accomplishments as testimony to his virtue.

Brian Phillips
 

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If you read rich dad poor dad-- the wealthy seek ways to "serve more people for less money" IE sacrifice profit per job to gain volume. This is generous in a sense because they are helping more for less.(virtuous) It also goes on to explain that employees and small businesses that seek to do less for more, are greedy(less virtuous) and end up hurting others and in the end become less wealthy, all the while blaming the boss(the man) or the cheap customer for not paying their price/ideal salary.

It's all in what side of the fence you are on.
 

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What a great post. Reminds me of something I've been thinking about lately having to do with sales, marketing, talking the talk, etc. I'm finding it extremely easy and natural to market what I sell. Why? Because I believe in the service we provide. I know that all we have to do is find the best way to convey the truth to our perspctive customers. Pleasing them after we get the job is a non-issue. What a great feeling that is!

Thanks Brian

Mack
 

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Believe it or not I enjoy what I do. I could have done allot of other things in life that would pay me more, or consume less of my time. My passion is driving up to an old house and making it beautiful with my hands. I have taken sales courses.... I've even done a few illegal jobs.... But out of everything, remodeling makes me feel fulfilled. I sleep good at night knowing I'm making an honest living. And one day I'll drive down the street and point at all the houses that I made beautiful and that will bring me more joy than anyone thinking back to all the people they screwed out of money.
 

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Brian

One of the few concepts that I retained from college was from a Philosophy 101 class back in the 80s. Plato's virtue of the mean. Very basically, the idea is that virtuous behavior is the mean between two extremes. For example, a virtuous behavior like courage is the mean between the extremes of cowardice and rashness.

Many of our discussions here are about finding the sweet spot on pricing, or the most appropriate marketing strategies. Your suggestion about the exchange between two parties of things that each values is right on. If you are offering a good service that you can stand behind, at a price that is honest to the customer and your business model, then I think that would be a virtuous exchange.

Sometimes, in a diverse format like this, when your ideas are viewed by others with different models - often ones that are being traded at a lower price - there is at best a misunderstanding, and at worst some ugliness.
 

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I hold that virtue—honesty, integrity, justice, productiveness, and pride for example—are the only legitimate means to material success. I hold that virtue is indeed practical, if happiness on earth is considered practical (which I do).

Business success is not an easy accomplishment. It takes years and years of hard work. It requires dedication and perseverance. It requires will power and self-motivation. It requires self-confidence. It requires treating others fairly.

A con man lives in the short term. He seeks easy prey. He does not create value, he only seeks to extort it. He lives for today, because tomorrow he needs another victim. And tomorrow he will be hiding from yesterday’s victim.


Brian Phillips
BP, great food for thought. I have a feeling that those that are successful are always dodging arrows from those that have more trouble achieving it. Its the mentality, "If I can't win at this, you must be somehow cheating to beat me". That train of thought is a Cadillac with bald tires and bad brakes driving down a mud soaked mountain road.

Brian, you brought this to my attention: Envy is in line with those other business killers.. prejudice, complacency and close mindedness. I'm not immune to ego or occassionally feeling pangs of jealousy when I see someone do something awesome in business. Damn, why didn't I think of that? I try to let those feelings motivate me versus looking for a reason why that person had an unfair advantage. The bottom line is, if you are driven, finding out you have been dropping the ball hurts your pride. Its tough to admit to. Its much easier to levy blame and cry foul.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Plato's virtue of the mean. Very basically, the idea is that virtuous behavior is the mean between two extremes. For example, a virtuous behavior like courage is the mean between the extremes of cowardice and rashness.
Scott,

I am not a fan of Plato, nor do I agree that virtue lies in the mean.

What is the mean between good and evil? A little good and a little evil? I don't regard that as virtuous. What is the mean between food and poison?

Virtue is an extreme. It is a total commitment to rational values, in both thought and action. For the best dramatization of this, see John Galt.

Brian Phillips
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Is that a reference to Ayn Rand and Objectivism?

Brian would probably agree, if you have plenty of time to spare, Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged are some very interesting reads.
Yes to your question. And yes they are interesting reads. I would say more than interesting-- life changing.

Brian Phillips
 
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