Professional Painting Contractors Forum banner
1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been using Centurion 2k for a few months now. Maybe 2 jobs a month. My question is, how toxic is isocyanurate? Specifically inhalation. I wear ppe, but if the family is in the basement is it OK? How long to wait before it is safe? Should I be wearing a mask for brush and roll?

Also how toxic are we talking? Smoke a cigarette toxic of the course of a day. A carton?

Not much, if any info our there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
isocyanates are NASTY. DO NOT breath in those fumes without a respirator,under any circumstances.

you're not finding much info, cuz you spell it wrong.
Copied directly from centurion sds. Which 3m filters are to be used? 3m don't list specific chemicals it will protect against.

How long until the stuff is safe to be around?
 

·
Registered
Property Manager
Joined
·
114 Posts
I've been using Centurion 2k for a few months now. Maybe 2 jobs a month. My question is, how toxic is isocyanurate? Specifically inhalation. I wear ppe, but if the family is in the basement is it OK? How long to wait before it is safe? Should I be wearing a mask for brush and roll?

Also how toxic are we talking? Smoke a cigarette toxic of the course of a day. A carton?

Not much, if any info our there.
Good question worthy of some more discussion backed by facts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,328 Posts
Copied directly from centurion sds. Which 3m filters are to be used? 3m don't list specific chemicals it will protect against.

How long until the stuff is safe to be around?
Ok. I didnt realize there was a thing as isocyanurates, but Id still treat them the same way as isocyanates. youre supposed to use a supplied air, but most car painters just use the basic organic vapor cartridges. Change them after every job
 

·
Registered
Painter & Furniture Refinishing
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
Sure am glad you are still well enough to ask about that after using for a couple of months!! ;) What kind of "PPE" have you been using up until now?
As @Woodco noted:
"isocyanates are NASTY. DO NOT breath in those fumes without a respirator,under any circumstances."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Too bad about the toxicity with the isocyanates, because other than that the 2K products sound great. Earlier this year we used Old Master's interior water-based poly with an optional hardener that made the stuff dang near bulletproof. Reading the SDS it didn't appear to contain isocyanates.

I wonder if there are any pigmented coatings out there that can be paired with an isocyanate-free hardener? Not sure if that would be considered '2K' or not.
 

·
Registered
Painter & Furniture Refinishing
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
Helpful Information:
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,291 Posts
I've been using Centurion 2k for a few months now. Maybe 2 jobs a month. My question is, how toxic is isocyanurate? Specifically inhalation. I wear ppe, but if the family is in the basement is it OK? How long to wait before it is safe? Should I be wearing a mask for brush and roll?

Also how toxic are we talking? Smoke a cigarette toxic of the course of a day. A carton?

Not much, if any info our there.
There are several Centurion 2k Polys, and it may vary from one to the other, but as you said there are no isocyanates in the product I looked at. Most information regarding isocyanurates (as you pointed out, different than isocyanates) seems to suggest that isocyanurates are low in acute toxicity, but severity seems to depend in which 'type' of isocyanurate is used.

"The chlorinated isocyanurates have low acute oral and dermal toxicity but are very irritating to the eyes, and have been placed in Toxicity Category I (indicating the highest level of acute toxicity) for this effect. They are very mild skin irritants and are not considered to be skin sensitizers." (epa.gov)

The SDS for Centurion 2k a little confusing, but the "Hazards" are labelled as a '1' (most severe) in regards to flammability, and '2' for the risk posed to Health. SDS states that there are no carcinogens in the ingredients, and most ingredients only posed a 'risk of irritation' to skin, eyes, and lungs. Use in a well ventilated area and should be fine, goggles may help. All in all it looks better than many other 2K products. (I am definitely not an expert in this area, just giving feedback as someone else in the field looking at the literature).

Correct me if I am mistake, but the Hardener is what typically contains isocyanates (a known carcinogen)?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,330 Posts
The HDI oligomers used in WB 2K coatings experience minimal volatilization & really won’t outgas from wet or uncured films, so there’s minimal concern except for airborne spray mist plus any sanding dust created prior to full cure, which isn’t always the case with the more volatile isocyanates, such as monomers and toluene diisocyanates aka TDI…Roll & brush should be fine w/Centurion WB catalyst due to low volatility of the isocyanates listed on the SDS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sure am glad you are still well enough to ask about that after using for a couple of months!! ;) What kind of "PPE" have you been using up until now?
As @Woodco noted:
"isocyanates are NASTY. DO NOT breath in those fumes without a respirator,under any circumstances."
Normal p100 mask filters and saftey glasses when we aren't doing the full face mask. Fan blowing out air out of the area we are working in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
There are several Centurion 2k Polys, and it may vary from one to the other, but as you said there are no isocyanates in the product I looked at. Most information regarding isocyanurates (as you pointed out, different than isocyanates) seems to suggest that isocyanurates are low in acute toxicity, but severity seems to depend in which 'type' of isocyanurate is used.

"The chlorinated isocyanurates have low acute oral and dermal toxicity but are very irritating to the eyes, and have been placed in Toxicity Category I (indicating the highest level of acute toxicity) for this effect. They are very mild skin irritants and are not considered to be skin sensitizers." (epa.gov)

The SDS for Centurion 2k a little confusing, but the "Hazards" are labelled as a '1' (most severe) in regards to flammability, and '2' for the risk posed to Health. SDS states that there are no carcinogens in the ingredients, and most ingredients only posed a 'risk of irritation' to skin, eyes, and lungs. Use in a well ventilated area and should be fine, goggles may help. All in all it looks better than many other 2K products. (I am definitely not an expert in this area, just giving feedback as someone else in the field looking at the literature).

Correct me if I am mistake, but the Hardener is what typically contains isocyanates (a known carcinogen)?

I'm not an expert either, but I believe that's correct that the hardener is the part that contains the isocyanate.

I was a little bit surprised to read that it has a high flammability rating, I was under the impression that most water based products had very low fire hazard risk. Would that mean that explosion-proof fans would need to be used?
 

·
Registered
Painter & Furniture Refinishing
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
I searched isocyanurates and isocyanates, as used in paints and found similar cautions and warnings for both chemicals. Both, seem to me, to require similar PPE. If you can smell it at all, you have been over exposed. Physical damage from exposure is not reversible. Also sanding, even wet, if not FULLY CURED poses the same risks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
I searched isocyanurates and isocyanates, as used in paints and found similar cautions and warnings for both chemicals. Both, seem to me, to require similar PPE. If you can smell it at all, you have been over exposed. Physical damage from exposure is not reversible. Also sanding, even wet, if not FULLY CURED poses the same risks.
In that case I think I'll stay away from them. Seems to be plenty of other finishes that customers are perfectly satisfied with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Wish someone would have done some type of study on it. Or centurion could come out and say a process for using their ptoducts
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
Read the safety data sheet, and the PDS they should say what type of respiratory protection should be used and the side effects.
 

·
Registered
Painter & Furniture Refinishing
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
How long until the stuff is safe to be around?
The data sheet said Cure time is 3 days (72 hours)
"The odour threshold for isocyanates, i.e. the level at which an individual can smell
an isocyanate, is typically higher than the allowed exposure limits. In other words, if
a painter smells the sweet, fruity, pungent odour of an isocyanate, they are probably
already overexposed. That is why the recommended respiratory protection for
employees spraying isocyanates is a supplied air respirator and not an air purifying
respirator (i.e. filter cartridge style). The issue with use of air purifying respirators is
that they will reach a point at which the filter becomes saturated and will no longer
capture the isocyanate or other solvents. When that filter breakthrough happens, an
overexposure can occur, potentially causing an irreversible sensitization. Use of a
supplied air system removes this filter change factor - it does not rely on the painter
changing his gas/vapour filters at appropriate intervals.
Note: if isocyanate-containing paint is applied by brush, roller or dipping, in a well
ventilated area, there is generally no more hazard than with ordinary paints. These
application methods usually do not produce the higher concentrations of isocyanate
vapour associated with spraying.
After curing, polyurethane paints contain no free isocyanates and are not hazardous
under normal use. However, welding or burning of polyurethane coated surfaces can
release a range of contaminants.
Other health effects which have been reported include liver and kidney dysfunction.
Some Isocyanate materials are considered to be potential human carcinogens."
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top