[Masterpiece]

Hey guys, I'm looking into some low/no VOC paints for an interior residential job where the wife has multiple health problems.

I've searched and found a few prominent names and just wanted some feedback in case any of you have worked with these lately.

1. (ICI) Freshaire...HD product, what more to say, but I've found some reviews saying it covered great, others saying it's garbage which wouldn't surprise me.
2. SW Harmony...recommended by my local dealer though he was somewhat tightlipped about the coverage. Very few around here (Memphis, TN area) bother checking out these newer products.
3. Pittsburgh Pure Performance...There's a Porter store down the street.
4. Mythic...not really looking for a mail order paint, since it can be difficult if you don't order enough,etc.
5. BM Aura...way out of their price range I'm sure. Around here, most can't bear to spend the $25-$30 I charge them for Superpaint (my favorite so far but too shiny for interiors, though I've done 2 satin interiors lately w/it)

Cost, performance/VOC and availability are important. Once I get individual pricing I'll have a better idea, but wanted some input on the first 3 I listed, Mythic if they have a dealer around Memphis perhaps.

Thanks guys, great Forum!

Jeremy

 

[MAK-Deco]

Hey guys, I'm looking into some low/no VOC paints for an interior residential job where the wife has multiple health problems.

I've searched and found a few prominent names and just wanted some feedback in case any of you have worked with these lately.

1. (ICI) Freshaire...HD product, what more to say, but I've found some reviews saying it covered great, others saying it's garbage which wouldn't surprise me.
2. SW Harmony...recommended by my local dealer though he was somewhat tightlipped about the coverage. Very few around here (Memphis, TN area) bother checking out these newer products.
3. Pittsburgh Pure Performance...There's a Porter store down the street.
4. Mythic...not really looking for a mail order paint, since it can be difficult if you don't order enough,etc.
5. BM Aura...way out of their price range I'm sure. Around here, most can't bear to spend the $25-$30 I charge them for Superpaint (my favorite so far but too shiny for interiors, though I've done 2 satin interiors lately w/it)

Cost, performance/VOC and availability are important. Once I get individual pricing I'll have a better idea, but wanted some input on the first 3 I listed, Mythic if they have a dealer around Memphis perhaps.

Thanks guys, great Forum!

Jeremy

I would say out of what you mentioned I would try the PPG Pure Performance.

 

[Masterpiece]

Thanks for the suggestion MAK! I've really enjoyed expanding my knowledge of other products and look forward to trying some out. Down here around Memphis, Farrell Calhoun and Sherwin Williams are the big 2 pretty much and it's always to have good or better alternatives.

I gathered from the SW rep that Harmony's best feature was low oder; he squirmed when I asked how the hide compared to Duration/Superpaint

I wouldn't go near Freshaire unless a pro actually had a positive experience (I suppose anything's possible)

Jeremy

 

[[email protected]]

I know SW has Harmony, but have you looked into their 200 ProGreen?

I haven't used it yet but I seen 15 Gal go out the store last week. I never see Harmony go out the store.... (while I wait for my paint I always observe what is being delivered to other painters... )

 

[Wolverine]

Personally, if the wife has health issues I'd be worried about more than just VOC. The VOCs are the least of your worries. What about the other toxic chemicals that are going to be leaching out? THOSE are the things that the 'wife' needs to be worried about.

When it comes to health issues... why take risks? Go with NO VOC and NON-TOXIC.

I would recommend Mythic... even if it is a little harder to get. I'll bet your customer will see value in your knowledge that those 'green' products out there are still toxic.

 

[Masterpiece]

Thanks for the input guys...I'm definitely going to at least check into Mythic pricing,etc but I just wanted some local options as well w/o sacrificing coverage completely...

I mean, I don't see how any could be any worse at covering than the old Pro Mar 700 I had to use in apartments some years back

Jeremy

 

[Masterpiece]

One last question (for now), do you guys have any comparison between the PPG Pure Performance and SW products?

SW said that Harmony and the Green200 ('Green' version of 200 contractor grade) cover about the same as the regular PM 200...

I'm willing to try Pure Performance was hoping that it'll cover at least as well as the SW product...

BTW, I couldn't believe how excited the manager was to have someone interested in his products for residential apps...he's actually considering phasing out the Pure Performance Int...

Jeremy

 

[MAK-Deco]

If George Z is around I think he use PPG PP regularly and good give you a better idea on it.

 

[bikerboy]

One last question (for now), do you guys have any comparison between the PPG Pure Performance and SW products?

SW said that Harmony and the Green200 ('Green' version of 200 contractor grade) cover about the same as the regular PM 200...

I'm willing to try Pure Performance was hoping that it'll cover at least as well as the SW product...

BTW, I couldn't believe how excited the manager was to have someone interested in his products for residential apps...he's actually considering phasing out the Pure Performance Int...

Jeremy

We have used pure performance. It seems to cover well and goes on nice. It is not Super Paint (something I am fond of), but not far off the mark either. Pure performance is a zero voc, low odor product. It is washable. I think you will like it.

here's a link.

http://www.pittsburghpaints.com/for_professionals/environmental_info/index.htm

 

[George Z]

If George Z is around I think he use PPG PP regularly and good give you a better idea on it.

It's a good product, but I would agree with:

Personally, if the wife has health issues I'd be worried about more than just VOC. The VOCs are the least of your worries. What about the other toxic chemicals that are going to be leaching out? THOSE are the things that the 'wife' needs to be worried about.

When it comes to health issues... why take risks? Go with NO VOC and NON-TOXIC.

I would recommend Mythic... even if it is a little harder to get. I'll bet your customer will see value in your knowledge that those 'green' products out there are still toxic.

I haven't used Mythic but reviews here have been good.

 

[DeanV]

Besides crystalline silicates, what harmful chemicals are in paints like Aura that do not qualify as VOC's?

 

[Z paint]

ammonia,,formaldyyde,,maybe ethel glycol..someone could prob pull up a msds on it

 

[CharlieWis]

Hey Masterpiece,

Harmony has terrible coverage, definatley stay away from that stuff. But SW Duration is my first choice for interior. I've never used any Zero VOC stuff so I can't help there.

 

[Masterpiece]

Thanks guys..I'm definitely going to try the Pure Performance...and I must amend my original description of the customer. Over the phoone, she spoke like she may have had health issues but she's actually just concerned about what she's 'heard' about paint toxicity.

I even asked her if the smell of paint bothered her and she said no, just wanted to try a paint w/low or no toxicity. I gave her an estimate of around $45/gal for 'non toxic' paint (was going by Mythic's online prices) and she decided she'd be happy w/low VOC paints that were much cheaper...hence, the PPG

Another issue is the large LR/DR...covered in 20yo dark blue wallpaper w/matching border on top. No idea if the walls were ever sized,etc...
Ironically, she asked me about oil priming over them in order to paint

I'll likely tackle the job in the next month or two so I'll report back later

Jeremy

 

[VAInteriors]

While VOCs can be a concern, this whole toxic thing is silly. While there are some things in paints you wouldn't want to drink gallons of, latex paint, as a whole, is not as harmful as some would have you believe. You have a few companies out there coming out saying their product is "non toxic" so now, by default, everyone believes that those who don't say it are toxic. That's not true.

In fact, call your local poison control center and tell them you accidentally ingested some latex paint and see what they say. What they will tell you is that you will be fine as long as it wasn't on purpose and you drank a whole bunch.

Certainly being green and taking harmful chemicals out of products can only be a good thing, but also remember that some of those chemicals are in there for a reason. For example, some of the more stringent chemicals are in there to prevent bacterial contamination. So it may be nice to not have the chemicals, but now you have a can that is more susceptible to bacteria.

My recommendation would be that anything that is low voc or no voc is perfectly fine for use.

 

[vermontpainter]

While VOCs can be a concern, this whole toxic thing is silly.

I used to think so. Then I considered the fact that I will have spent most of my life in a paint spreading environment. Yeah, its no big deal if you spread a gallon once in a while. But day after day, year after year, why would you expose yourself to toxicity if there were quality and cost-effective alternatives? Just remember, whatever the house gets, we get.

My recommendation would be that anything that is low voc or no voc is perfectly fine for use.

Do you understand what the VOC regulations that manufacturers comply to are actually geared toward? Not you and me.

 

[MaizeandBluePainter]

Milk paint

I have tested a brand called Old Fashioned Milk Paint. It contains no voc's virtually no other toxic chemicals.

You cannot ingest it because it contains lime, but outside of that, it's completely nontoxic and free of voc's.

I did a sample of this for my grandmother, because she was looking for a way to paint without toxic fumes; my grandfather was on oxygen at the time, and suffering from emphysema.

We never did paint the kitchen or the cabinets, but the paint covered great. They recommend using a clearcoat over it in areas where it will get a lot of wear and tear.

You can order this stuff through the mail, in powdered form. It's pretty expensive. I think it came in at about $60 per gallon. You also have to buy the milk and mix it in yourself.


http://www.milkpaint.com/

 

[DeanV]

I looked up Aura eggshells MSDS, and it has only titanium dioxide, limestone, and crystaline and amorphous silcates listed as harmful substances. Not formaldehyde, ammonia, etc listed on the sheet. Sounds like it is the usual sanding and spray mist hazards.

 

[KeirK]

While VOCs can be a concern, this whole toxic thing is silly. While there are some things in paints you wouldn't want to drink gallons of, latex paint, as a whole, is not as harmful as some would have you believe. You have a few companies out there coming out saying their product is "non toxic" so now, by default, everyone believes that those who don't say it are toxic. That's not true.

In fact, call your local poison control center and tell them you accidentally ingested some latex paint and see what they say. What they will tell you is that you will be fine as long as it wasn't on purpose and you drank a whole bunch.

Certainly being green and taking harmful chemicals out of products can only be a good thing, but also remember that some of those chemicals are in there for a reason. For example, some of the more stringent chemicals are in there to prevent bacterial contamination. So it may be nice to not have the chemicals, but now you have a can that is more susceptible to bacteria.

My recommendation would be that anything that is low voc or no voc is perfectly fine for use.

VA,
Eating paint is definitely not a good thing to do. However the toxicity point is due to exposure and not consumption. Every day your body absorbs the environment around it. Different people have different tolerances and so on. Since it can take up to 6 years for the VOC's/toxins to stop off gassing after painting (less than 50% in the first year) I would say that qualifies as toxic. Additionally, there is really only one reason why someone would not say they have non-toxic paint.....they don't.
You are absolutely correct about there being a reason for chemicals in their products, they have not figured out how to make them without the toxins. Its not a marketing ploy to scare you into a hole, its the truth about an industry that has been largely ignored on the regulatory front. We came out with products that the govt should have made all manufacturers do 20 years ago. I appreciate your concerns and bringing levity to the issue, but consider your own health. Now that you know, what chances do you really want to take?

Milk Paint,
the oldest product on the market! Performance lacks, but definitely safer than conventional latex.

 

[DeanV]

If the off gassing over six years for solvent or waterborne products?

Do you use titanium dioxide?