[chrisn]

Polyethylene rolls are plastic.

What do you lay down when you are spraying the baseboards and EVERYTHING in a condo which has new carpet?..I also lay a drop sheet over the plastic.

I'm not sure why the mods allow you to troll this forum.

because I am so damn cute:whistling2::jester::blink:

 

[CApainter]

My boss would have been justified kicking my gnads in if I ever started taping an exterior as a crutch for cutting in.

And as a community, we need to get over that cutting in paint is some fleeting skill set that only the elite will ever master. Lol.

Trust me, you don't need to be that good to make a living at painting.

 

[Painting Practice]

I've never used tape as a crutch, but do use it as another tool in my van for some projects. Reasons I might use it: caulking base or casing, cleaning up former lines on trim (advancing the new cut line out on to the trim a fraction of an inch). Extreme color changes where several tight cuts are required. keeping wall spatter off contrasting base colors.

 

[gyusher]

House Painting

House painting has changed over the years. Todays interiors are busier with much more detail. That said I'm still kinda old school about 'cutting in' or painting trim. Actually I used to work with an old painter from Chicago who painted everything with a brush including walls, ceilings everything. That old man could paint a room faster with a big block brush than I could using a roller.
I like the looks of a good artistic paint job. I appreciate the skill and time it takes to do it. That said I understand the pressures of time plus having to use mostly unskilled painters.
They used to tell us that a good painter never spilled a drop of paint on the floor. That's what elbows are for to catch drips.
This site brings back memories. . . I remember enamel kitchens (stippling) and bathrooms, learning how to brush moulding in such a way as the paint would flow out to look sprayed on, how a 4ft step ladder wasn't a ladder but a work bench, buying white shirts for 25 cents each from the work clothes rental companies, even using evaporated can milk in my coffee at breaks.
Sorry for drifting off into la la land but. . .

 

[fipple]

The master bedroom in that condo had a three tiered tray ceiling with crown at each level. After spraying the trim I was looking at it thinking "it's going to take forever to mask all that, maybe I should just hand paint it". Even to just spray the ceiling parts, I would have to mask the top and bottom edges of the crown. Seemed like a lot to do and I had almost convinced myself it would be faster to just cut it in.

But no, there's no way it would have been. With two coats to go on the ceilings and walls, that would have been a lot of lines to cut. Lot of trips around the room. So I started masking and two and a half hours later it was ready.

Sprayed out the ceilings, painted the walls and finished that room myself in a day (while also running crew in the rest of the house). I'm glad I didn't talk myself into cutting all that in.

I enjoy cutting in myself and understand the pride most painters take in their brush work. At one time, I also scoffed at the idea of using tape to make lines. I've evolved, and learning to use tape effectively has dramatically increased efficiency and profits.


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Thats some lovely work there!......if its a standard room then i always freehand...but obviously in your/this situation tape was needed....any slight deviation freehand on this would have stood out...lots of parallel line!...
Great job:thumbup:

 

[TigerPainting]

I'm normally a tapeless painter and I am proud of my freehand lines. But I had an apartment of mine that I needed a quick turn around on, so I decided to try a technique I've been thinking about for a while...ever since I got my 595 Finish Pro II.

Normally, we'll paint top to bottom, cutting in by hand along the way. It's not especially time consuming, but teaching new crew to give a crap about the cut line is hard to do, and I'm just unwilling to compromise on the quality of a cut. And it takes a long time for a newbie to get cutting nicely. Plus there are some times where a skilled brush is the only way to work a problem. But for this job, I went the other way. I masked the floor off with construction paper, and then the windows and wrapped everything else off in plastic. Then I took the 595 around and sprayed the trim. As you know, that's lightning quick, and the results look like glass.
Next we taped the trim off with about 1/16" wall "bleed" all over, then painted the top of that tape seam with trim paint and a brush. This step sealed the masking tape. We attached masking film to the trim, then sprayed all the walls out, backrolling along the way. Again, lightning fast.
Then I taped the tops of the walls with about 1/16" wall exposed, then sealed that tape with wall paint again. Then we mask-filmed the walls. At this point, I've got everything in the apartment covered in plastic except the ceilings.
Then we sprayed and backrolled the ceilings. After 2nd coat, we immediately removed the tape. The results were shocking. We had about 2 or 3 spots needing a touchup where the paint had pulled away, but less than 10 minutes work. Cleared out all the garbage, and the place is as crisp as any hand cut line I've ever done. Still running the numbers on time, but the good news is, any goofball can do the taping, while my more skilled crew can run the 595. It was an instructive project.
I'm still a believer in hand cut lines, but this is a great arrow for the quiver, for sure.

 

[Gough]

Finally waded through this thread, lots of interesting tips and varied viewpoints.

My $0.02: for ~90% of our resi repaints, we tape the tops of base to prevent spatter and put "hoods" on head casings to keep the spatter off door and window trim.

Two of the jobs we just finished were part of the other 10%. On one job, we were doing trim only in some of the rooms, no walls, no ceiling. The trim had all be re-set because of changes in the finished floor. We taped the walls with Frog yellow, then caulked with white DAP 230. After priming and 2 coats of Advance, we pulled the tape the next day.

On the other job, there was a dramatic color change and varnished oak trim. We taped the edges of the trim with 3M 2080, then caulked with 230 (clear). We primed with a deep tone primer, and then finished with 2-3 topcoats. After letting the paint dry overnight, we pulled the tape.

In both cases, the circumstances (not painting walls or drastic color changes) and number of coats (3-4) made the decision easy. The time spent masking and caulking (and pulling mask) was more than offset by the speed with which we could apply each coat.

 

[Jmayspaint]

In both cases, the circumstances (not painting walls or drastic color changes) and number of coats (3-4) made the decision easy. The time spent masking and caulking (and pulling mask) was more than offset by the speed with which we could apply each coat.

That example is really the point I would make in a nut shell IMO. Tape is a tool. A potentially valuable tool in certain situations.

Taking advantage of modern technology (hand maskers, edge lock, safe release, etc.) is not a betrayal to our trade. Any more than a nail gun is a betrayal to the carpentry trade.

Doesn't mean taping is going to work for everybody. If your a classical brush guy/gal who scorns taping and doesn't want to learn it, then it's probably not going to be a production/quality boon for you personally.

I don't necessarily agree with a previous poster who claimed "any goofball can do taping". Of course, they're correct in the most general of senses. Any goofball can do any human trade. All you really need is opposable thumbs and basic direction.

But to do taping that results in professional level lines in a timely manner that doesn't damage the surface, and can be removed easily, takes a little skill. Maybe not as much as learning to cut in, but still.

I personally had as hard a time learning to tape properly and efficiently as I did learning to cut in. Of course, I learned to cut in as a youth and they say your brain is much more plastic and impressionable at the stage in life. I never seriously tried to learn to tape professionally till I was in my 30's. I feel great about it now, glad I put in the effort. It's a profitable skill/tool to have in the bag.





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[Vylum]

i dont care what anyone says a dude who can cut fast and accurate with a true professional lines is rare, BS cutting paint is an easy skill painters need to get over. ive worked with plenty of 30 year guys who just cant get it. you get a guy like bill gates playing basketball he will be no steph curry, im sorry to say there are talented pros out there can put a lot of us to shame.

cutting is an easy skill? how fast is fast? how straight is straight? two very difficult parameters it break into the top 10% on this globe. i do agree taping isnt easy, i love the skill of taping, not easy at all but tape is a crutch, pros dont line everything with tape. spraying walls in interiors sounds silly, too much could go wrong, too much taping

 

[Jmayspaint]

i dont care what anyone says a dude who can cut fast and accurate with a true professional lines is rare....

It absolutely is. Rarer still is the skilled pro who knows that one certain skill set, whether it be cutting a sharp line, or getting good flow from a roller, isn't the the end all be all in the game of coatings application.

The query in the OP seemed to be whether or not taping for lines could be beneficial in running a productive paint crew considering the current labor pool limitations for painters (and the building trades in general).

I wood say yes, it could be. If one had a motivated individual or two wanting to learn how to use tape effectively it could be a great boon to the production of a mediocre paint crew.

OTOH, a bunch of deadbeat painters who can't even cut a line, and aren't motivated to learn how to, probably wouldn't do much better with a roll of tape in their hand than they do with a brush.


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[The Cutting Edge]

I can remember arguing with DeArch a few years back about this subject. My first few years of painting were all on textured walls and I always cut my lines to the base. Nowadays I rarely see textured walls anymore. I always tape the top of base. Its a win win for me. It keeps the roller spatter off and gives me the cleanest line possible. For me it takes no more time to tape it and hit it quickly with a brush when I'm rolling the wall than it does to cut it in. It doesn't matter if cutting that line in makes me feel good about my skills or not. I get the cleanest lines every time with tape. That's better for me and my customers. And yes it takes skill to tape trim. I feel just as good when I pull that tape off the base and it leaves a perfect line as cutting it in.
I can't believe some of you guys have been painting for years and years and don't know how to use a masker. Spray much? A masker with 99in plastic or 12in paper gets used on my jobs almost daily. Its an important tool that saves me a lot of time and money.

 

[CApainter]

like anything else, and with enough practice, anyone can cut an adequate line of paint without tape. But it takes a conscious effort and desire that's often absent in this trade. And there are a lot of variables for poor cut lines. From lousy brush choice and maintenance, to difficult paint properties, physical impairments, and simply not allowing enough time to calmly produce a pleasing paint product.

Bottom line in terms of tape, you can't match the straightness of a sprayed cut line. But we're not always spraying. So, why waste time taping everything if you're not spraying? For example, the Bay Area in CA, often has precipitation in the way of fog. If I never learned how to cut in French Windows off a swing stage, or extension ladder, without the use of tape, I would have never lasted in this trade.

Are my cut lines in the top 8% of the best painters out there as Vylum suggested? Absolutely not. But they are absolutely passable for a free handed paint product. As a matter of fact, I have never been called on my cut lines by a customer, or by my employers for that matter. But, I'm sure there are plenty of my peers that would relish in the opportunity to pick apart my work. I just look at it as insecurity.

 

[Gough]

That example is really the point I would make in a nut shell IMO. Tape is a tool. A potentially valuable tool in certain situations.

Taking advantage of modern technology (hand maskers, edge lock, safe release, etc.) is not a betrayal to our trade. Any more than a nail gun is a betrayal to the carpentry trade.

Doesn't mean taping is going to work for everybody. If your a classical brush guy/gal who scorns taping and doesn't want to learn it, then it's probably not going to be a production/quality boon for you personally.

I don't necessarily agree with a previous poster who claimed "any goofball can do taping". Of course, they're correct in the most general of senses. Any goofball can do any human trade. All you really need is opposable thumbs and basic direction.

But to do taping that results in professional level lines in a timely manner that doesn't damage the surface, and can be removed easily, takes a little skill. Maybe not as much as learning to cut in, but still.

I personally had as hard a time learning to tape properly and efficiently as I did learning to cut in. Of course, I learned to cut in as a youth and they say your brain is much more plastic and impressionable at the stage in life. I never seriously tried to learn to tape professionally till I was in my 30's. I feel great about it now, glad I put in the effort. It's a profitable skill/tool to have in the bag.

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Early in my career, during a previous building slump, one of my painting clients offered me a few month's work as a hoddy. The mason with whom I worked had a wide range of skills and made the comment that the more skills you had, the better your future in the trades. That advice has stood me in good stead.

 

[Vylum]

alot of tape guys dont talk about the negatives of it. it can bleed, you can lay it wrong, you have to buy it, you have to carry it around.i tape base but tape does take time. also i bet tape guys lose confidence in hitting frames, i know its a fine skill i need to keep tight or i lose brush skill while doing other tasks

 

[Gough]

alot of tape guys dont talk about the negatives of it. it can bleed, you can lay it wrong, you have to buy it, you have to carry it around.i tape base but tape does take time. also i bet tape guys lose confidence in hitting frames, i know its a fine skill i need to keep tight or i lose brush skill while doing other tasks

Bleeding is pretty much eliminated with the newer tapes (Frog, 3M EdgeLock, etc.) when properly used- a light pass with a brush or, as I posted above, a thin layer of caulk.

Even with these more expensive tapes, the savings in time can often make up for the cost. I figure that, if a $7.50 roll of tape saves us more than 6 minutes, it's saving us money.

One of the attached-lid totes that goes into virtually every one of our interior jobs is the one labeled MASK.

I don't know any pros that are strictly "tape" guys, so I can't speak to that lost confidence comment. I think a lot of us, as indicated by comments upthread, merely see tape as one more tool to use when appropriate.

 

[Jmayspaint]

alot of tape guys dont talk about the negatives of it. it can bleed, you can lay it wrong, you have to buy it, you have to carry it around.i tape base but tape does take time. also i bet tape guys lose confidence in hitting frames, i know its a fine skill i need to keep tight or i lose brush skill while doing other tasks

Those problems are what's meant by 'learning to use tape. It isn't the tapes fault if it bleeds, is applied wrong, or takes too long to apply.

I agree with you on keeping your skills sharp. It's important to stay well rounded in my opinion. The other day I got to brush a bunch of smooth, 6 panel doors. Been a while since I did that, and it took a few doors to get back in the swing. Painting is kinda like riding a bike, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to immediately do a flip on your BMX after not riding it for a year.

You've been at this trade what, 7 or 8 years IIRC? Give it another 10-15 and you just might get tired of all that brushing. I sure do at times. Heck, I may start using a paint pad one day just to break the monotony


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[Gough]

Those problems are what's meant by 'learning to use tape. It isn't the tapes fault if it bleeds, is applied wrong, or takes too long to apply.

I agree with you on keeping your skills sharp. It's important to stay well rounded in my opinion. The other day I got to brush a bunch of smooth, 6 panel doors. Been a while since I did that, and it took a few doors to get back in the swing. Painting is kinda like riding a bike, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to immediately do a flip on your BMX after not riding it for a year.

You've been at this trade what, 7 or 8 years IIRC? Give it another 10-15 and you just might get tired of all that brushing. I sure do at times. Heck, I may start using a paint pad one day just to break the monotony


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When we have a handful of flush doors to varnish and spraying isn't feasible, we grab some paint pads.

Don't freak out PT'ers, it's just another tool.

 

[CApainter]

This is just not turning into the fight I was hoping for.

As an employee, I think it's the contractor, owner/operator, solo painter, entrepreneur, whatever you want to call it, that sets the tone for the use of tape. And it's been my experience that all of them get their girdles in a pinch if they see you using tape beyond simply protecting baseboards and door knobs from spatter.

 

[Gough]

This is just not turning into the fight I was hoping for.

As an employee, I think it's the contractor, owner/operator, solo painter, entrepreneur, whatever you want to call it, that sets the tone for the use of tape. And it's been my experience that all of them get their girdles in a pinch if they see you using tape beyond simply protecting baseboards and door knobs from spatter.

Aw, jeez, here we go again....

 

[CApainter]

Aw, jeez, here we go again....

Damnit!