[Kelly Painting]

I'm still small with only 2 guys...(one being a helper) And my painter just isn't a good painter. He's a hard worker..doesn't even take a break. But just
learned the basics and felt that was enough. He can't cut for crap. And he doesn't listen..... Yesterday I said 3 times.."utilize the hot dog roller to face off the trim again"...it's a apartment repaint...and he just brushed everything waisting valuable time (& my $$)...I mean he brushed 5 doors..and when I checked them they all had runs!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish I could just find one guy who can paint as well as I'd like. Maybe I'm not paying enough....but I haven't found one in years that I feel can paint as well as I do.Now I'm not saying I'm god...just a painter you don't have to check on all the time. How the hell could I ever get out of the bucket if no one working for me has any talent?


I actually toyed with putting this on craigslist...but I'm not sure...
What do you guys think?



Is anyone a real painter?I own a small paint company, and have yet to find anyone who can cut a straight line...paint a door the proper way..or even show up every day without an excuse.
Is there any real painters out there?

I'm looking for someone who has been painting for years & prides himself on the quality of work he produces. Someone who can eventually go to my customers houses by themselves to complete work. Someone who can listen and is not afraid of learning. Someone who can run a crew, eventually maybe run my business.

I'm looking for someone who likes to paint.
You must have a vehicle (that runs in any weather)
You must not show up dressed like a scumbag. (please tie your shoes)
Someone who doesn't think they too have a paint company, just because they printed a card on the computer.

If this even comes close to describing you, please send me an email
and tell me about yourself. Thank you.

 

[Brian]

Pay piece work. They get paid $X to paint a door to acceptable standards. If they want to waste time doing it their way and don't want to listen, it won't cost you. If they have some motivation and will listen, they make more and you get to keep your hair.

At the same time, you may want to modify your hiring procedures a little. Hire attitude. You can teach skills if they have the right attitude. If they have a bad attitude it doesn't matter what you say or do, you're the jerk.

Also, you may want to re-examine your standards. I found that I was setting unreasonable standards and nobody could meet them. When I realized that, I understood why I couldn't find a good painter. When I set more reasonable standards, good painters seemed to be everywhere.

Brian Phillips

 

[HomeGuardPaints]

I can't even find a good sub contractor for some of my overflow let alone an employee that paints, hell if you find one maybe we can split the cost of cloning a few of him .

 

[Kelly Painting]

"At the same time, you may want to modify your hiring procedures a little. Hire attitude. You can teach skills if they have the right attitude. If they have a bad attitude it doesn't matter what you say or do, you're the jerk."


Ya, I know...but every time I read some posts I find something new I got to fix.....trying to better yourself..your business..your employee's..not to drink too much....getting enough sleep...stop smoking...start at the gym again..
it's really becoming allot of work.

 

[Dave Mac]

Kelly dont get to frusterated. I think every single contractor has been in your shoes!!!! It will probally take 10 maybe 20 guys to find a good one, it took me that many anyways. When i was painting and looking for help, I always kept adds at the paintstores, and got the biggest list of painters I could get, everyone I saw that looked respectable, i approached and got their name and number, I even walked up to guys at job sights. I have a few basic questions, I ask them, and one at a time I would let come work for me.

Since I was painting in the field i could tell usually with in a day or at least a week if they were going to work out or not. I didnt waiste anytime trying to become freinds with them, buisness only, but in a very respectfull way. I truly beleive the guy that is hiring and is still painting has a great advantage.

Sceduling, dont let these guys mess your sceduling up, I always just sceduled for my hours, when a client asked how long it was going to take. clients dont usally get mad when you finish early, just in case you find one painter that you actually keep, and gets you ahead of scedule. Dont waiste anytime in firing these guys imo, trust your gut, the sooner you fire one the sooner you will find a good one.

Once you find a good painter, things get way easier, and all that grief you went through was worth it. Usually good painters know good painters, and you can start to build.

thanks
dave mac

 

[Kelly Painting]

Ya, thanks Dave..... things are just picking up real fast right now....
3 weeks ago I was dead...and wondering what to do...now I'm going six ways to Sunday and wondering if my guy cant even accomplish a blow and go apartment re-paint...how can I bring him to a high end client?.... I'ts funny some days we bitch if we are slow...and then we bitch if there is too much too soon. I just want to be prepared for the new wave of customers coming
in, you know as well as I do that 4 new high end customers can affect my business in a great way. Pissing off 2 of them can do more damage than I'd like to live with.

 

[chipster]

Ya, thanks Dave..... things are just picking up real fast right now....
3 weeks ago I was dead...and wondering what to do...now I'm going six ways to Sunday and wondering if my guy cant even accomplish a blow and go apartment re-paint...how can I bring him to a high end client?.... I'ts funny some days we bitch if we are slow...and then we bitch if there is too much too soon. I just want to be prepared for the new wave of customers coming
in, you know as well as I do that 4 new high end customers can affect my business in a great way. Pissing off 2 of them can do more damage than I'd like to live with.

You need to be on the jobsite cracking the whip untill you find your dream painter or you may be using the liability insurance soon.

 

[vermontpainter]

We went throught that with a guy this summer. Nice guy. Hard worker. Couldnt cut or do clean brushwork on trim. We decided that it comes down to two things when assessing and trying to resolve this issue:

1. The person's eye for detail isnt developed to the point where they see things to the excruciating level that you do. (Musicians speak of having the "ear", well we have the "eye".

2. The person's eye is developed enough, but they just don't care enough to solve the problem.

The best you can do is assess his attitude and see if it is something you can reform. People are incredibly simple sometimes. If you don't show him point blank what exactly you are unhappy with, he will not figure it out. Also, if you tell him to whiz roll and backbrush the doors, its your responsibility to make sure he does it the way you asked him to, and if he is an employee who isnt working according to the direction you give him, then it will be pretty easy grounds for letting him go when you get to the point where you cant stand it anymore. Anyone out here who has employees or ever has had employees knows this whole dance...Ride it out. When a good one shows up you will be in heaven.

 

[timhag]

Dont waiste anytime in firing these guys imo, trust your gut, the sooner you fire one the sooner you will find a good one.thanks
dave mac

I find one b 4 firing one, i don't waist any time looking for another when one is on the way out. I,ve been through many guys looking for that good one. As a matter of fact, found a guy last year, 7 years experence....OD"d on a job. Found a good guy back in april of 07,best of the best, couldn't ask for a better guy...end up in jail. Found a good guy back in July, wanted to fight me cause i caulked where he missed asking me "what is the white stuff all over my paint job". Found a good guy back in sept. best guy, hard worker...problem is, he doesn't show up for work once a week. Found a good guy in Dec., he is now in jail.The history continues to go in circles back to 7 years ago.:wallbash:The list goes on and on.

 

[vermontpainter]

Just another thought...one tactic that can work is to "catch him doing something right" and compliment him. Sometimes success breeds success. And sometimes you really have to set him up for success. Create a situation where he completely understands what you are asking him to do so that there is no way he can miss the target. Then give him a compliment. Sounds touchy feely, but who doesnt like to hear when they did something well?

If you think he has potential, show him the bad doors and explain what he needs to improve. Tell him he has 3 weeks to correct it or you will have to let him go. If he improves, keep him and reward him with a small raise. Kind of ironic to be talking doors with a guy who looks just like Jim Morrison.

 

[Kelly Painting]

I'm just glad we broke on thru.

 

[Alex PCI]

Ive been in your shoes more times than I care to remember and it took these forums to find out that the fault was with me. I was hiring jack legs within a few minutes on the phone with them....just because I believed there talk. I always ran ads for employment when I needed a person asap, I was so busy I needed help immediately and hired the first person who said they could paint. I did this for years and found the worst painters imaginable, some of which I didn’t fire because I needed the minimal amount of help they produced. This led to tons of stress, loss of work, and me thinking negatively about the whole work force in general. Thanks to a few on this forum I realized it was clearly my fault for allowing this. I now run employment ads full time, even when not looking for employees. I am also developing a strict interviewing process, and as Dave said I am also on the look out for clean cut painters (pun intended) in paint stores or on other job sites.

Don’t get me wrong… my employee’s are no dream come true, they are definitely better than any ive had before, but my way of approaching this is still new to me and work in progress.

The moral of my story is stay positive, approach your problem from a different angle, and realize that good people are out there even if they have never held a brush.
It works, it may take time…..but it works!

 

[chipster]

I'm just glad we broke on thru.

to the other side?

:rockon:

 

[GMack]

Also, you may want to re-examine your standards. I found that I was setting unreasonable standards and nobody could meet them. When I realized that, I understood why I couldn't find a good painter. When I set more reasonable standards, good painters seemed to be everywhere.

Brian,

You just suggested lowering your standards. I think I know where you are going with this (please correct me if I'm wrong). I would think you are talking about hiring good people even if they are low-skilled and developing the systems to make them successful . . . Fine. I hear you loud and clear, and I my systems will enable ordinarily-skilled people to succeed at ALMOST all aspects of a given job. In painting, though, the one thing I can't find a system for is cutting a line as sharp as mine! Do you have one?

Mack

 

[Rich]

I can get into details, but I will simply say...kelly, you will know the guy when you find him. In other words, keep looking. Someone mentioned musicians...my advice is to look to musicians. I am one myself and have noticed that these types of people have certain brains that are made for the painting trade. Fine attention to detail. This is really what you are looking for. Not the fastest, not the best, etc. Just a person who can handle what you tell them.

You'll get there...

Oh and Tim, I'd fight you over caulk anyday, hehe...J/K

 

[chipster]

You know the day destroys the night
Night divides the day
Tried to run
Tried to hide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Chased our plea here
Dug our trea there
Still recall
Time we cried
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through, yeah!
Wow!
Wow!
Everybody loves my baby
Everybody loves my baby
She get
She get
She get
She get high
She get high. she get high.
She get high. she get high.
The woman get high. the woman get high.
She get high. baby, get high.
She get high. she get high.
The woman get high. she get high.
She get high. baby, so high.
She get high. she get high.
The woman get high. she get high.
Wow!
She get high. she get high.
I found an island in your arms
Country in your eyes
Arms that chain us
Eyes that lie
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through, yeah!
All right!
Yeah, made the scene
Week to week
Day to day
Hour to hour
The gate is straight
Deep and wide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

 

[Kelly Painting]

you are the lizard king...you can do anything

 

[plainpainter]

The biggest problem I have had with finding work - is I know who the good painters are out there. You meet these guys haphazardly - but they are working for some SOB - but unlike me, this SOB has a constant flow of work. And this good painter has a family to feed. So my problem is finding enough work that I could responsibly offer the guy a job. Because if I could, he would leave the other job in a heartbeat!

I have developped a concept called 'coalition-painters'. And this is a group of like minded individuals who are all painters/business owners - who for the most part are by themselves, or had crews but are back to being by themselves. What we do - is when one of us has a contract - we go work for that person for a normal wage - and the vice versa. This is a network of painters, and between us we know a few good workers that have helped on weekend projects and their work was great. My intentions is that through advertizing - we can use a guy like this between us, after we lured him from his contractor and keep him gainfully employed. This in turn will allow us to grow and do more work.

I have had plenty of bums myself, and plenty of backtalk on the job - even experience being yelled at - for the suggestion of sanding back down ready patch on the nail holes - if you can believe that? What I have found is that I can easily gross 70k in sales off my own back - but some of jobs are just too much to handle - and that's when your fellow 'coalition' contractors can come and help out. The hope is eventually - between us, we can get a 'good' guy - and keep him employed all year long.

 

[chipster]

Well, I just got into town about an hour ago
Took a look around, see which way the wind blow
Where the little girls in their hollywood bungalows
Are you a lucky little lady in the city of light
Or just another lost angel...city of night
City of night, city of night, city of night, woo, cmon
L.a. woman, l.a. woman
L.a. woman sunday afternoon x3
Drive through your suburbs
Into your blues, into your blues, yeah
Into your blue-blue blues
Into your blues, ohh, yeah
I see your hair is burnin
Hills are filled with fire
If they say I never loved you
You know they are a liar
Drivin down your freeways
Midnight alleys roam
Cops in cars, the topless bars
Never saw a woman...
So alone, so alone x2
Motel money murder madness
Lets change the mood from glad to sadness
Mr. mojo risin, mr. mojo risin x2
Got to keep on risin
Mr. mojo risin, mr. mojo risin
Mojo risin, gotta mojo risin
Mr. mojo risin, gotta keep on risin
Risin, risin
Gone risin, risin
Im gone risin, risin
I gotta risin, risin
Well, risin, risin
I gotta, wooo, yeah, risin
Woah, ohh yeah
Well, I just got into town about an hour ago
Took a look around, see which way the wind blow
Where the little girls in their hollywood bungalows
Are you a lucky little lady in the city of light
Or just another lost angel...city of night
City of night, city of night, city of night, woah, cmon
L.a. woman, l.a. woman, l.a. woman, your my woman
Little l.a. woman, little l.a. woman
L.a. l.a. woman woman, l.a. woman cmon

 

[Safety Guy]

You know the day destroys the night
Night divides the day
Tried to run
Tried to hide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Chased our plea here
Dug our trea there
Still recall
Time we cried
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through, yeah!
Wow!
Wow!
Everybody loves my baby
Everybody loves my baby
She get
She get
She get
She get high
She get high. she get high.
She get high. she get high.
The woman get high. the woman get high.
She get high. baby, get high.
She get high. she get high.
The woman get high. she get high.
She get high. baby, so high.
She get high. she get high.
The woman get high. she get high.
Wow!
She get high. she get high.
I found an island in your arms
Country in your eyes
Arms that chain us
Eyes that lie
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through, yeah!
All right!
Yeah, made the scene
Week to week
Day to day
Hour to hour
The gate is straight
Deep and wide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Boy that sure was helpful:wallbash:

I find that I may go through 15-20 guys before I find a keeper. You really do have an advantage working side by side with a new hire. I generally give a guy 2 chances with 2 trusted foreman, 3 if they work hard. If you cannot have at least one of the foreman ask for you on another job I really don't need you. You should really lay it on the line with a new hire, similar to what you proposed on the Craigslist idea. Let them know your expectations up front. I honestly have had better luck hiring a guy that says he has little knowledge but wants to learn and will work hard. I am done hiring guys that have 10 years of being slop jockeys that think they know everything.