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You really like to argue just for the sake of argument. You might consider talking less and listening more. This will help in sales as well.
You dance around pretty well - no offense. How about answering my recent, previous questions? There are 2 of them out there. I'll wait on your answers but I definitely won't hold my breath. So much for an honest 2 way street of communication.
 

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Yea - right, just curious. Why does it feel like I am constantly defending myself. That post about my "factory" experience was pretty personal and I had no reason to share that with y'all but I did. Be honest with why you asked the question - if you don't mind.
Honestly, I was curious. I am not finding your other question, and in the last 50 posts you have put out about 40% of them singlehandedly. You should take a break.
 

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Honestly, I was curious. I am not finding your other question, and in the last 50 posts you have put out about 40% of them singlehandedly. You should take a break.
Scott: WOW - you spent the time to go back 50 posts. It took me only one page and a few seconds to find my other question. See below and answer if you will. I'll take johnpaint's advice and bow out. I am sure you've got more dance move to work on - Just kidding.

"Scott - You mentioned in my haste to argue earlier. I may have disagreed and had different opinions but when or how did I become argumentative? Just asking because I want be interactive not a sh!t starter. Either you mis-spoke or I typed something that was wrong. Can you be specific? Thanks."
 

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You are starting to come off as a bit silly. You just acknowledged to Johnpaint, who said that you were the problem here, that you needed to stop. Just stop. It doesnt matter when I think you became argumentative. All that matters is what you think. Now stop stinking up this thread and go start another thread about YOU where you can get more feedback and disagree with it. Maybe I will stop by.
 

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You dance around pretty well - no offense. How about answering my recent, previous questions? There are 2 of them out there. I'll wait on your answers but I definitely won't hold my breath. So much for an honest 2 way street of communication.
Etc. Etc. Etc. Would you please stick to the topic? This topic is difficult enough to discuss with any clarity considering the amount of participants.

For the last two pages I keep seeing posts by you that are taking the thread further and further from any kind of cohesive dialogue.

The fact that you do not understand the significance of WHY low-ballers hacks, DIY'ers, and homeowners occupying these forums is a problem, is a very clear indicator to me of your lack of understanding of the trade.

These people compete with professionals so why would a professional want to teach them how to be doing jobs they shouldn't be trying without supervision.

If they want to learn to paint, they should do what I did, which was woork for an established legitimate painting company for several years.

I will be more than happy to teach them under those circumstances.

In the mean time, they give painters a bad name, they give customers unreasonable expectations, and a skewed idea of what painting is about.

Most of the professionals here do not want to spend time getting these guys out of jams. Mos of the pros here to not want to spend time trying to figure out if they are legit or not.

I outlined a very easy way to tell who is legit and who is not:

They are required to post detailed bios about their painting experience before they can expect ANY interaction at all.

Right off the bat this will discourage the majority of people who come on here wasting our time with their bullsh*t stories and excuses.

This will make it very easy for us to tell from reading their bio, and a few subsequent posts whether they are legit or not.


The reason why ignoring them wont work is there is always going to be someone who answers their question. There will always be a few new members eager to contribute who don't understand the dynamics of this situation, and will be happy to tell these hacks how to fix their problems.

I got suckered into this a few times when I first started here before I realized that I was acting in a way that was detrimental to professional committed, dedicated painters everywhere.

We need to create an environment that virtually eliminates the possibility that DIY'ers, hacks, homeowners etc., will even get though the door, THEN established experienced painters will feel free to exchange information.

So Fresh Coat, by your own logic "why not just ignore the hacks", would you please ignore this thread? You have no interest in the topic, so please let people who do have an interest in the topic make some progress in this discussion.
 

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I've not visited CT for a bit, why are they getting PO'ed ?

something LIKE this??

Seems that ole 06 F150 has taken you guys for a ride.

Pricks like this is exactly why I am against offering anyone help with pricing on jobs they should well be able to price for themselves.

These guys think they are smarter than anyone else coming here and asking those questions and then not wanting anyone to know anything about their business after they get what they want.

Hell I can blow all kind of holes in this guys procedures, he doesn't know what he is doing.:clap:

The typical hackster that punishes all of us in the long run.:brows:
 

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Thanks Nathan. I have noticed on CT that one trade USED to help amnother tradesman (not in same trade) with a question. About six months ago that started to stop. The plumbers were the first to nut up when asked about stuff. Then the sparkies. Now I guess no one wants to answer questions out of trade. No more professional courtesy.


LC said:
We need to create an environment that virtually eliminates the possibility that DIY'ers, hacks, homeowners etc., will even get though the door, THEN established experienced painters will feel free to exchange information.
And that is the real solution. Personally I think a "VIP" section is not the answer. I think the answer is to somehow prevent the non-professional from having access. We mods try, but someone can always slip in.

And then there is the question of what constitutes a "professional" . No ten people here will have the same answer.
 

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Create a VIP section, and you’ve taken the fun out of Paint Talk. There’s also the risk of the VIPs devouring their own, without a fresh supply of new meat to scrutinize.
 

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Personally I think a "VIP" section is not the answer.
I should have picked a different name. The V.I.P. title is irrelevant. Also, the group would not be a small percentage of the painttalk members, if properly executed the private group would be the majority of the paint talk members.

Having a small percentage of the private group members have to vote someone in to the private group would work well for the private section. It would mean that there could be many people who wouldn't vote someone in, but they could still get in if just several people did. This would eliminate logistical hassles over disagreements. And make it so people could still get in even if some people didn't like them.

But I think the most important thing is NOT the private group, but to require people to post a detailed Bio,

or they can expect NO interaction from people. They can leave out personal information regarding names and locations if they choose, but they should list all of their pertinent experience.

1. This will immediately discourage a lot of people from trying to bull**** their way in here because they will know that experienced painters will be reading the bio.

2. It will give a context to contrast their posts to. If they start lying and bull****ting, it will be much easier to detect based on what they said in their bio.

For example if someone says they have done a lot of Lacquer work, then they are talking about runs on a handrail and the reveal that they used a 5-17 tip, people will know they were bullsh*tting about having done a lot of lacquer work.

In the wording to new members I would encourage them to "be honest about their experience", and say "DO NOT exaggerate your experience, a wide range of experience levels are accepted here, but if you exaggerate your experience, the veteran painters will know"

I guarantee you that will eliminate 95% of people right off the bat who think they can come on here to get an answer to some ridiculous jam they got themselves into that they should have hired a painter for in the first place.

I think the answer is to somehow prevent the non-professional from having access. We mods try, but someone can always slip in.
For the record, I think you guys do an EXCELLENT job moderating this place. Of all the forums I have participated in, the moderators of this site do the least strong-arming, while still keeping the peace.

To me that is the mark of a good moderator, any moderator can just go around being an asshole and people will stay in line, but a skilled moderator keeps the peace without being an asshole, and this keeps members from leaving.

I have seen you instantly send someone to the DIY section, but that was when the people were honest enough to let us know right away that they weren't a pro. Without that honest (and rare) admission, it is going to be difficult for you guys to have the certainty to just boot someone out like that.

Requiring people to post a detailed BIO right off the bat would keep a lot of riff-raff out of here. And make it MUCH easier to spot the riff-raff that did come in.

And then there is the question of what constitutes a "professional" . No ten people here will have the same answer.
I think I have defined a reasonable set of standards that are wide ranging and encompass the most important aspects that will make for a valuable contributor: Members of this forum should be:


  • Painting is their primary means of income. Or they HAVE worked for several years with painting as their primary means of income, and still derive at least half of their income from painting. (I am not going to hold it against someone who paints houses, AND builds cabinets, but I don't want to teach a cabinet builder who has never finished cabinets how to finish them)


  • If they own their own business, has been employed full time for at least 4 years PRIOR to starting their own business. ( this discourages student painters and people who painted for one summer then started a "Painting Business" from trying to come here to be part of the community.)
The third thing I am undecided on and that would be that they are licensed and bonded, or are employed for a company that is licensed and bonded.

We definitely should start doing something to get the hacks out of the industry, however I do know there are lots of painters who have a lot of valuable experience and knowledge to share who are not currently licensed and bonded.
 

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Can you imagine NEPs always in agreement with fellow contractors. Trapped within some stuffy, private forum, not having the freedom to expose the frauds that defile our silicone sanctum. Deprived of his spot on insights and Katana edged wit? It's like seeing Jack after the lobotomy in "One flew Over the Cookoo's Nest"!
 

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And then there is the question of what constitutes a "professional" . No ten people here will have the same answer.
And yet somehow we expect that homeowners should be able to discern that when choosing a contractor.

I attend another forum where members are required to post a signature in which they have their name, business name, location and website if applicable. This eliminates the anonymous hack or diy-er right out of the gate. From there, if they are a fraud it is pretty quickly apparent.
 

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Discussion Starter #114
Can you imagine NEPs always in agreement with fellow contractors. Trapped within some stuffy, private forum, not having the freedom to expose the frauds that defile our silicone sanctum. Deprived of his spot on insights and Katana edged wit? It's like seeing Jack after the lobotomy in "One flew Over the Cookoo's Nest"!
:laughing:

To be perfectly honest, I have a lot of fun with the hacks. I would prefer to give them some humorous answers and let it all flow. Some of the hack threads are hilarious. I would rather the threads were left if only people would stop answering their questions. It aint gonna happen so they gotta go.
 

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Question: Would this Star Chamber of the painting world, be inclusive to non-contractors like myself, and Last Craftsman, given we're just Journeyman painters?
 

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I like how everyone congregates at Nathen's forum to complain how lousy it is:rolleyes:


Sorry guys, there are definitely some peeps here who shouldn't be, but I'm not sure it would be much fun just sitting around stroking each other. I mean, how many more pics of an exterior or a tenant improvement do you want to see?
Most of us who are comfortable in our skin don't ask to many questions. Take away the learning and you take away all the fun.
 
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