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So do you guys think I should focus on old house re-paints, and stay way from new houses and contractors? It seems like and easy job to do new work , but more costly to take on an old house.
New Homes vs. Old
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Nate
Click on Brians profile and read every post he has ever written out here. Then do the same thing with Pressure Pros' profile. Then George Z. Then Rich and Prowall and Slickshift. Do Timhag last. When you read Timhags posts, you well encounter hundreds of threads you havent seen yet that contain a wealth of information. This may take a week or two. Come back with questions.
Click on Brians profile and read every post he has ever written out here. Then do the same thing with Pressure Pros' profile. Then George Z. Then Rich and Prowall and Slickshift. Do Timhag last. When you read Timhags posts, you well encounter hundreds of threads you havent seen yet that contain a wealth of information. This may take a week or two. Come back with questions.
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59 Posts
Oh man, I'm doing a ceiling job in an old house 1905 or so and it SUCKS!! Be done Monday, I hope.. Surprise, after surprise, after surprise.. Stick with the new Nate!
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Like Wicked said, surprise after surprise with the old. If you know how to handle the surprises, old is just as good as new. As for you, I would stick with new till you have some experience.
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Yah, and if you have the time while doing the job (if it's an old house) to learn as you go when you find a surprise then, old might be for you.. But, being that you are starting out new like me Nate, stay new.. If this ceiling that I'm doing was in a new house it would've taken me 2, 3 days tops.. Monday will be day 5.. Not good, not good at all... That's all I gotta say about that.....
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Here's my two cents worth. Have said this before. If you concentrate solely on new construction, when the economy and/or building industry slow down your work slows or stops. If you work only for one builder, when his/her work slows down (or you piss them off) your work stops.
With old repaints, they are always there (although they can slow down). You are building a base of clients of which many will refer you if you do a good job. You can charge more for similar jobs. It can be more involved work, but you have a better chance of add ons. (McDonalds 101: Would you like some fries with that?, always ask if the customers has something else to paint. Go out of your way to find it.)
It is not as fast or easy as new construction, but as your business grows it is usually more consistant work wise. In a perfect world, you would be doing some of both.
With old repaints, they are always there (although they can slow down). You are building a base of clients of which many will refer you if you do a good job. You can charge more for similar jobs. It can be more involved work, but you have a better chance of add ons. (McDonalds 101: Would you like some fries with that?, always ask if the customers has something else to paint. Go out of your way to find it.)
It is not as fast or easy as new construction, but as your business grows it is usually more consistant work wise. In a perfect world, you would be doing some of both.
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New work you are working on their scedule not yours, you will be called upon to bail them out their poor sceduling habits come closing time, they will expect you to work on weekends and yet not want to pay extra for the overtime you have to pay the guys, you will have to work around many other trades people, and if anything gets damaged they will either blame you or expect you to fix it for free, they take their sweet time paying you if they pay you at all, did i mention I did new work for many years projects $210,000 plus projects knocking them out in 6 months with 15- 20 men working seven days a week and didnt make crap. I personally have a huge chip on my shoulder about new work, and wont do it anymore. One thing that seems to be common and most all will agree on is repaints have a better profit margin. imo
Old work typically a couple of good painters can knock out a job in a week our less and gross profit is about 40 to 50 percent. You dont have to chase after your check, you stay clean for the most part, do you know how nasty you get from spraying 50 gallons in a day on the interior, or all the red clay and mud around newwork. No other subs screwing up your work. And you only have the ho to please, and they care more about quality then price like the GC.
just my 2cents plenty of guys making a good living do newwork, not for me though
Old work typically a couple of good painters can knock out a job in a week our less and gross profit is about 40 to 50 percent. You dont have to chase after your check, you stay clean for the most part, do you know how nasty you get from spraying 50 gallons in a day on the interior, or all the red clay and mud around newwork. No other subs screwing up your work. And you only have the ho to please, and they care more about quality then price like the GC.
just my 2cents plenty of guys making a good living do newwork, not for me though
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202 Posts
Well said Dave.
This is why i don't even think of doing any new construction right now. One of the reasons I started my own business is to able to work on my own schedule. It will be very stupid business move on my part to take on a new construction at this point. Buying more equipment, hire 2-3 more painters to help, pay more for insurance, WC....
I know my limit.
For now, prefer to go slow. I have been doing this for 4 years going on 5. If things are going the way it has been for me, I will stay with residential and some very small commercials repaint. Maybe and only maybe, 4 years from now, i might reconsider.
I don't have to rely on GC. I have enough works to fill my schedule, less headache, is Priceless. :yes:
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1,390 Posts
Well said Dave. I agree with all of this.
New work tends to be high production and lower quality. I asked a builder about this last year. I asked him why, for a few hundred dollars per house, he didn't put a more durable paint on the walls.
He explained that he focused on those items that could not be as easily improved later, like wood and ceramic flooring, countertops, etc. I thought he made a somewhat valid point. It's a lot cheaper to repaint the walls than to replace the wood floors.
I think there is money to be made in new work, but it has to be with the right builder and you need to CYA. Unfortunately a lot of the hacks have trained builders to expect the painter to take responsibility for nearly everything that goes wrong.
Brian Phillips
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14,407 Posts
These are all valid points. My business focuses mostly on the new. When I hear a beginner in business talking about soliciting work from contractors, I cringe thinking about the school of hard knocks. They know so many little parlor tricks that defy good business practice and basic morality. It took me a few years to figure them out, but now I can smell it a mile away. They can bend you over, hold your money, beat the job out of you all on the promise of tons of future work that you may never see.
There are some good ones out there, but when its bad its really bad. I would most definitely recommend a new person to start on small homeowner repaints. Learn about your business that way. One of my first new constructions ever had a classic contractor behind schedule and gonna make it up on the finish end deals going on. I remember the homeowner being freaked out because every day that goes by that they cant get out of their construction loan and lock into their mortgage (while rates are climbing daily) is, over the 30 year term, costing them thousands. At that point, they could care less whether you put another skim on that wall before you second coat...I really dont recommend it for people just starting out.
There are some good ones out there, but when its bad its really bad. I would most definitely recommend a new person to start on small homeowner repaints. Learn about your business that way. One of my first new constructions ever had a classic contractor behind schedule and gonna make it up on the finish end deals going on. I remember the homeowner being freaked out because every day that goes by that they cant get out of their construction loan and lock into their mortgage (while rates are climbing daily) is, over the 30 year term, costing them thousands. At that point, they could care less whether you put another skim on that wall before you second coat...I really dont recommend it for people just starting out.
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