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We are thinking about devoting some shop space and one employee to cabinet refinishing. We've painted a fairly good amount of cabinets in the past, but are considering trying to up our game a bit. We tend to paint the cabinets on site in a customer's house and bring the doors back to our shop to paint, then return & reinstall them.

I'm not sure what all paints we've used in the past... I believe we've used some Proclassic (probably latex & oil...but just guessing). We used insl-x cabinet coat on the last set that I know of and my guys really liked it.

We're also thinking we may team up with a friend who owns a cabinet company and buy old good quality cabinets from him when he builds new ones...then paint & resell. We have more flexibility in coatings (I would think) with the in shop stuff than we do with the field application jobs.

I'm considering a CV for shop spray...but not sure about taking it out for field application. I'm not a fine finishes guy...so this really isn't my game. Any thoughts or advice from people who are REALLY GOOD AND HIGHLY EXPERIENCED / KNOWLEDGEABLE would be welcomed and appreciated.

We're a fairly large shop...we have any spray equipment we could need.
 

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We are thinking about devoting some shop space and one employee to cabinet refinishing. We've painted a fairly good amount of cabinets in the past, but are considering trying to up our game a bit. We tend to paint the cabinets on site in a customer's house and bring the doors back to our shop to paint, then return & reinstall them.

I'm not sure what all paints we've used in the past... I believe we've used some Proclassic (probably latex & oil...but just guessing). We used insl-x cabinet coat on the last set that I know of and my guys really liked it.

We're also thinking we may team up with a friend who owns a cabinet company and buy old good quality cabinets from him when he builds new ones...then paint & resell. We have more flexibility in coatings (I would think) with the in shop stuff than we do with the field application jobs.

I'm considering a CV for shop spray...but not sure about taking it out for field application. I'm not a fine finishes guy...so this really isn't my game. Any thoughts or advice from people who are REALLY GOOD AND HIGHLY EXPERIENCED / KNOWLEDGEABLE would be welcomed and appreciated.

We're a fairly large shop...we have any spray equipment we could need.
I still use satin impervo oil for most of my own projects. Oil has the look, feel, and application properties waterborne just can't replicate. hollandlac is really something else if you ever get a chance to use it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah.... that would make sense to me - and moreso it would be more durable. The slow dry time stinks a little (we're using shop floor space, not a paint booth...yet).

I looked up Hollandlac. We have a small retailer not too far from us - half hour or so. $155/gal... that's pretty steep. What makes it different than ProClassic Alkyd or any other high end oil product? I'm certainly willing to try it...just curios what's driving that insanely high price. From the name, I expected that to be a lacquer product, surprised to see it's an oil.

What do you do for prep on your cabinets? do you fill the grain, and if so, how & with what? What primer do you use when finishing with oil?
 

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I'm not the guy with the most experience (residential re-paints). There are cabinet exclusive guys on here, if they chime in. Seems like a lot of the high-end cabinet guys want to use 2K products, or products that are otherwise more cabinet-specific.

But I will say this (in regards to your previous post):
The PC Acrylic Alkyd (Hybrid) is far better than the regular Pro Classic (which you mentioned in your post). I would not even consider latex PC, it does not spray well.

The Acrylic Alkyd sprays well, and dries like oil, and water clean-up. It has a very nice look and feel when dry. It brushes and rolls well also (cab. boxes), leaving negligible brush marks. Worth a try.
 

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Yeah.... that would make sense to me - and moreso it would be more durable. The slow dry time stinks a little (we're using shop floor space, not a paint booth...yet).

I looked up Hollandlac. We have a small retailer not too far from us - half hour or so. $155/gal... that's pretty steep. What makes it different than ProClassic Alkyd or any other high end oil product? I'm certainly willing to try it...just curios what's driving that insanely high price. From the name, I expected that to be a lacquer product, surprised to see it's an oil.

What do you do for prep on your cabinets? do you fill the grain, and if so, how & with what? What primer do you use when finishing with oil?
Impervo we use benjaminmoore 217 undercoater or a vinyl sealer Grainfilling: goodfilla mixed sometimes with water and sometimes a lacquer sealer.

Fine paints of europe... Well its just something you have to see for your self. Its unlike any other product system (you need to use their prep products with hollandlac) you've ever seen. Yes the cost/gallon is high but you'll use 50% less materials, their pigment system consists of ultra finely ground pigments suspended in oil. Every color covers like a stock color where as most other tint systems use universal or industrial tints.
Hollandlac is the only product I know that you can brush out a wall and make it look like an automotive finish. BM's got some good products but advance cannot do this
111832
 

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Impervo we use benjaminmoore 217 undercoater or a vinyl sealer Grainfilling: goodfilla mixed sometimes with water and sometimes a lacquer sealer.

Fine paints of europe... Well its just something you have to see for your self. Its unlike any other product system (you need to use their prep products with hollandlac) you've ever seen. Yes the cost/gallon is high but you'll use 50% less materials, their pigment system consists of ultra finely ground pigments suspended in oil. Every color covers like a stock color where as most other tint systems use universal or industrial tints.
Hollandlac is the only product I know that you can brush out a wall and make it look like an automotive finish. BM's got some good products but advance cannot do this
View attachment 111832
Is that hollandlac an oil? Looks nice. That green must be a high gloss..
 

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A couple water-based products you could spray in customers homes are PPG breakthrough and Ultra spec scuff X. I've used breakthrough a couple times and it's probably the best water-based cabinet coating, but it's too runny and was just having too hard a time with my airless. If I had a AAA I would probably still use it. Been using scuff-x though, it works great too.
 

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A couple water-based products you could spray in customers homes are PPG breakthrough and Ultra spec scuff X. I've used breakthrough a couple times and it's probably the best water-based cabinet coating, but it's too runny and was just having too hard a time with my airless. If I had a AAA I would probably still use it. Been using scuff-x though, it works great too.
Wow, you have the whole ceiling taped up? How's the ScuffX holding up btw?
 

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A couple water-based products you could spray in customers homes are PPG breakthrough and Ultra spec scuff X. I've used breakthrough a couple times and it's probably the best water-based cabinet coating, but it's too runny and was just having too hard a time with my airless. If I had a AAA I would probably still use it. Been using scuff-x though, it works great too.
looks great @fromthenorthwest ! Nice job on the prep.

(Just curious, is that a 12v or 20v impact gun pictured? Do you like it?)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
looks great @fromthenorthwest ! Nice job on the prep.

(Just curious, is that a 12v or 20v impact gun pictured? Do you like it?)
That's what my PPG rep recommended too.... I always struggle to believe paint reps because I know how they're incentivized to push the high margin, new products. Breakthrough has been pushed on me for bollards, floors, wood trim.... it's the "magic" paint that they push for everything, which has made me trust it for nothing. I trust it more from people on here saying they've used it successfully.... so maybe we'll try it when a job calls for a latex.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
A couple water-based products you could spray in customers homes are PPG breakthrough and Ultra spec scuff X. I've used breakthrough a couple times and it's probably the best water-based cabinet coating, but it's too runny and was just having too hard a time with my airless. If I had a AAA I would probably still use it. Been using scuff-x though, it works great too.
We have an air assisted airless that we NEVER use... tried it a few times when we first got it and never felt like we were getting the result we thought it would produce. Maybe we need to tune it up and give it another try. When you spray with your airless, have you tried the Graco RAC X low pressure fine finish tips? They are pretty awesome, let you cut your pressure in half.

Why AAA or airless.... why not an HVLP?
 

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So I went to my good friends at Google and looked up Milesi... interesting company. I saw this:
111851


This is fairly off subject...but not totally. I find this healthy.wood wood finish interesting. I've tried looking up bacteria growth on wood before, for personal use.... plastic vs wood cutting boards in my kitchen... glass vs. wood fish cleaning table in my yard... stuff like that. For years fishermen have used wood cleaning tables (that somewhat disgustingly never get more than a hose off) and butchers use wood butcher blocks. I remember my grandparents in florida cleaning tables full of fish on public cleaning table at the docks in scorching hot sun. I've done the same in canada on wood cleaning tables that I know have never been cleaned in years of use. People don't seem to die left and right from it. The story is that wood naturally kills bacteria. If so... what's the point of this? Also - I've never really trusted that anyway... should all wood food prep surfaces be treated in this stuff? I don't expect anyone to really know an answer to this (unless someone can blow me away with their microbiology knowledge), I'm asking rhetorically I guess. But... I find this interesting.
 

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We have an air assisted airless that we NEVER use... tried it a few times when we first got it and never felt like we were getting the result we thought it would produce. Maybe we need to tune it up and give it another try. When you spray with your airless, have you tried the Graco RAC X low pressure fine finish tips? They are pretty awesome, let you cut your pressure in half.

Why AAA or airless.... why not an HVLP?
Yeah those RAC X tips are pretty sweet. I actually switched to Tritech on the advice of some folks on here and I think they're even a bit better than the Graco, seem to maintain a better fan pattern without tails.

As to the AAA that's good to know, maybe I should save my money and not buy one. I know repaint Florida on here uses the AAA with breakthrough and seems to get great results, so I figured maybe it was easier to lay down a smooth pattern without putting as much on there, similar to an HVLP.

Which brings me to why not HVLP? I was loaned a nice capspray 115 from a friend, and spent a couple afternoons trying to dial it in with a few different waterborne finishes. I got some good results, but I seemed to have more problems than success. I even ordered a #4 and #5 needle set, thinned down 10-20%, etc and was still having problems. Whether it was the machine clogging, or getting dry spray. Then there is holding the cup gun full of paint, and the fact that it does go a bit slower than an airless, especially when you're doing 40 or 50 doors. Long story short after 15 years with an airless and knowing I could get pretty good results with the experience i have on that machine, I decided to not go for the HVLP. Although I will say when it was dialed in it did lay down a beautiful finish!
 

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Yeah those RAC X tips are pretty sweet. I actually switched to Tritech on the advice of some folks on here and I think they're even a bit better than the Graco, seem to maintain a better fan pattern without tails.

As to the AAA that's good to know, maybe I should save my money and not buy one. I know repaint Florida on here uses the AAA with breakthrough and seems to get great results, so I figured maybe it was easier to lay down a smooth pattern without putting as much on there, similar to an HVLP.

Which brings me to why not HVLP? I was loaned a nice capspray 115 from a friend, and spent a couple afternoons trying to dial it in with a few different waterborne finishes. I got some good results, but I seemed to have more problems than success. I even ordered a #4 and #5 needle set, thinned down 10-20%, etc and was still having problems. Whether it was the machine clogging, or getting dry spray. Then there is holding the cup gun full of paint, and the fact that it does go a bit slower than an airless, especially when you're doing 40 or 50 doors. Long story short after 15 years with an airless and knowing I could get pretty good results with the experience i have on that machine, I decided to not go for the HVLP. Although I will say when it was dialed in it did lay down a beautiful finish!
I'll check out the tritech tips and see if my guys like them. Honestly, never even heard of them. I live in SW & PPG world... if one of those two companies isn't selling it I generally don't know it exists. I like this website for that purpose. Also, I've never attended a PDCA (now PCA I guess). A buddy told me he goes or sends a couple of his guys and they feel like they get a lot out of it. I don't believe they've schedule a live annual meeting this year due to covid, but when they do I may start checking those out.
I wouldn't say that the AAA doesn't do well - I just say we didn't do well with it. I'm not a good painter... I came from the mfg side before opening my company and am more a sales/mgt guy. I love the tech and coatings side of it...but just not where my value/experience lies. If I put that AAA in other hands with someone determined to figure it out, it may produce an entirely different result. I've also never made anything look good with an HVLP, but we probably own 5 or 6 of them and I have guys that make things look beautiful with them. When it comes to bulk doors... we do the same thing though. It's all airless FF tips. We're production guys mostly though... so we need a good finish, not a 10 million dollar home finish on most of what we do. If we push forward with this cabinet finishing thing - we have to figure out the details on how to do beautiful work that will be durable and give the customer what they're paying for. We have a lot of guys, so I don't mean to group everyone together. They all have different skill sets, all shine in some area or another. I have one foreman who's an artsy detail oriented guy with some history in furniture refinishing, and loves doing cabinets.... he's who we're going to have run this stuff if we do it... but I want to have input and help make sure we're doing the best that we can reasonably do.

If you weren't so far away, I'd happily tell you you could borrow our AAA for a couple months and see if you like it. I bet if you asked, Graco would find a demo unit and let you borrow it for a couple weeks. Buy if you like it, return to demo stock if you don't.
 
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