[vermontpainter]

I have been combing and searching through the archives looking for information on offgassing. Specifically, how long do interior paints and clear oil based products offgas for? And how plausible is it that painted surfaces can release toxins when scuffed or worn (long after application)?

I know it has come up here at Painttalk, and I also know I have read about it in other venues - that paint can offgas for several years. This is recent news to me. I would appreciate any specific links that people could share with me about this. Thanks. :help:

 

[ProWallGuy]

You'll have to wait for Tim to come along and provide a link.

 

[vermontpainter]

God Bless our resident encyclopedia...I am pretty sure such a link is not in the Painttalk archives, based on my extensive searching so far. Somebody must have one from the outside world somewhere...

 

[Mandrake]

The offgassing question is a tough one. I'd like to hear from someone with some data. I'm sure alot would depend upon coating thickness, enviro conditions and the like.

If a coating contains any toxins as part of their solids - lead, cadmium, mercury,silica, etc. these will always pose a threat if distrurbed by sanding, blasting, burning etc.

What many folks don't know is that common interior latex (promar 200 for example) contains silica. Silica is considered a cancer-causing agent and causes silicosis, which is incurable

mndrk

 

[Tonyg]

I know I have read that after three years it can still produce offgassing but remembering where would take hours. I'm still trying to remember where I put my keys this morning!

 

[DeanV]

While we are at it, how about for lacquers outgassing? I hear they outgas formaldehyde for a while.

 

[painttofish]

I think the guy from mythic said two years. 50% the first and 50% the second. I'm sure different products and different environs would dictate.

 

[Paul_R]

Isn't the risk from silica exposure due to airborn dust particles, kind of the same thing when sanding joint compound? I do not think that paint can off gass silica.:blink:

Happy painting, Paul.

 

[vermontpainter]

Thats why part of my original question was concerning the potential for scuffs etc. to release toxic particles (not offgassing) into the interior environment after curing has taken place. And I agree Paul, my concern with crystalline silica is its presence in dust form during in between coat sanding.

 

[slickshift]

Who ya gonna call?

PaintBusters!

 

[vermontpainter]

PaintBusters!

Slick

I know we joke about it, but there is actually such a thing, only not specific to paint. Its called an "industrial hygeinist". There is one on a new construction job of ours who is doing extensive testing of all non-organic materials in the house (finishes, insulations, adhesives, air quality etc.) in order to specifically determine toxic contaminant levels. That is why I am researching the finish side of things.

 

[slickshift]

...interesting

Well, don't let all the data scare you
It can be a little intimidating

 

[vermontpainter]

...interesting

Well, don't let all the data scare you
It can be a little intimidating

I agree...if you over-analyze, you end up not wanting to be in this business at all...you may not want to even leave your house without a respirator...heck the interior air quality in your own house probably isnt even that great, and public places are no better...why go on living!!!

 

[JTP]

I can't resist--again

I agree...if you over-analyze, you end up not wanting to be in this business at all...you may not want to even leave your house without a respirator...heck the interior air quality in your own house probably isnt even that great, and public places are no better...why go on living!!!

We are all crazy, as far as I am concerned. We know this painting thing is not healthy, not even a little bit healthy. I was dreaming about painting last night--actually this is a common dream element for me--I was washing out an undetermined number of super wet, oil base 9 inchers in a 5 gallon bucket of used thinnner. Obviousoly, on one bothered to rake them out first. How's that for a nightmare?

Heck, just climbing ladders, even the smaller ones, is hazardous. One stupid or miscalculated step, yep there you are staring at the sky or ceiling, or whatever.

All in all, the whole trade is nothing but a health hazard. Good reason to run the business instead of working with your hands. Let the crew worry about these things. I am not being pejorative or scarcastic here either. Why wouldn't you want to get out of the bucket!

Yet for me, I am staying in the bucket b/c I am not looking to expand and need to be in the bucket under these circumstances--my choice at this point.

Vermont makes great points here. Your own domicile, the air, water, and environment are not all that great either. We humans sure made of royal mess of things. I'm for returning to the caves-- and drawing stick pictures.

JTP

 

[vermontpainter]

Let the crew worry about these things.

Morally, legally and professionally thats not where its at. I worry about these things more when I am not there. Its my responsibility to make sure that things are being done safely. Making sure that they have the right equipment and the right approach to potentially unsafe setups is never ending. And then, as you said, there is so much that is out of our control...one misstep off a 4 foot step ladder and there are torn ligaments and workers comp, disability, potential osha inspection...serious stuff this safety. And JT, I know you appreciate all of this, I am just re-emphasizing.


Your own domicile, the air, water, and environment are not all that great either. We humans sure made of royal mess of things. I'm for returning to the caves-- and drawing stick pictures.


Read Jarrod Diamonds book "Collapse". I think Slickshift or Prowallguy has a quote from it in their signature. That book will really make you think about the big picture.

 

[JTP]

Let the crew worry about these things.

Morally, legally and professionally thats not where its at. I worry about these things more when I am not there. Its my responsibility to make sure that things are being done safely. Making sure that they have the right equipment and the right approach to potentially unsafe setups is never ending. And then, as you said, there is so much that is out of our control...one misstep off a 4 foot step ladder and there are torn ligaments and workers comp, disability, potential osha inspection...serious stuff this safety. And JT, I know you appreciate all of this, I am just re-emphasizing.

Scott,

Yes, of course you are right. If you are running a crew, you certainly have to be super aware of saftely considerations. First off, as you say, there is a moral imperative to protect. Legally and professionally, again, there are laws and ethics good business people follow. Now this thread could easily lead to-- this high end professionalism is not practiced, in large measure in our own country anymore, let alone, the rest of the world.

If you are looking for price only, go to China. The locals will show you how to produce at the cheapest, dirtiest, and uncaring ways imaginable. Now, not to disregard the fact that the good ole USA ignored all the same things in the 1900 era of laissez faire capitalism as well. So, I am not denigrating the Chinese, I am simply saying China is where the US was a century ago with reference to the enviroment.

Whew--how the heck I did get from there ------ to here?

JTP

 

[vermontpainter]

Well since we are there...in Diamond's book Collapse, there is substantial evidence that China's environmental lack of policies are at the root of a global environmental crisis...

 

[timhag]

The old copy and paste techinque from another site.
Q. How long does paint off gas? If a standard VOC latex paint is used, what are the risks after the paint is cured?

A. Basically, when the solvents (or in the case of waterborne paints, cosolvents) have evaporated you should not expect any more "off-gasing". If there are plasticizers in the paint then off-gassing can take place especially when it is exposed to the sunlight. In clean rooms or aerospace applications off-gassing can be a problem because even the smallest concentration of vapors can be detrimental. For house paint the same is generally not true. Unless someone is super sensitive or allergic to organic vapors I would not expect to experience health risks after the paint has completely dried and cured.

 

[Wolverine]

That's a pretty good answer... except that last part. Outgassing because of plasticizers and low vapor pressure materials DO outgas... How long does depend on the vapor pressure, molecular mobility, applied film thickness, temerature, humidity, and how much coffee the chemist has had that you are talking to.

 

[Paul_R]

So Mr Natural what does it all mean?