old wood church ceiling

622 Views 14 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Redux, 9 d ago

PApaints

Discussion Starter · 25 d ago

I've got an old (100+ years) church ceiling that we are to seal/varnish. It's beautiful, and in great shape. Nothing has been done to it since at least the 60's, if not longer. The stain is in great shape, but there is no varnish or clear sealer of any kind visibly present.
I haven't spoken to the customer yet about film build or sheen options yet.... we don't do much wood finishing (aside from 100 decks or so a year)... so I wanted to educate myself on options before rolling them out to the customer. Any insight from knowledgeable people would be appreciated.
My assumption is that this wood is going to take finish like a sponge and that I should avoid trying to put much of a sheen on it at all... it could take 5 coats to get it consistent. I'm thinking more of a penetrating low-sheen sealer... but I'm not glued to this thought -- just my beginning thought process.

pic google drive folder

Reactions: 2

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

jennifertemple

· #2 · 25 d ago

You might try some pre-paint Krud Kutter, just to see, if in fact there is no sealer. I do use it to clean wood. You need to let it dry well after cleaning, and yes, I have used it on unsealed wood. I spray, leave it a few seconds and wipe hard with paper "shop towels". Test in an inconspicuous area to see if you get as good a result. Based on pic 2315, I suspect some kind of sealer disguised buy a build-up crud, over time. A penetrating low-sheen sealer seems a reasonable finish. It was stained once so I don't think it will eat-up quite as much stain as you think. As for sheen, it will look best with the least amount of sheen, (IMHO

). Some people do like a satin finish; I have a client that likes a satin finish on his wood paneled gazebo.

Joe67

· #3 · 25 d ago

That looks so nice that I would not want to touch it...and convince the client to leave it. So I think that before you can start figuring you need to know what/why they want to do to it.

Reactions: 3

PApaints

Discussion Starter · #4 · 25 d ago

I know why they want to do it... they are wanting the wood to be in good condtion in another 100 years. It's a historic church and they want to maintain it, and prefer preventative maintenance over reactive maintenance when the wood starts crumbling apart. I agree it's very nice looking... they aren't trying to improve the look, they're wanting to preserve the life. I just need to learn about my options to offer them the best course of action. I may just take it to my SW or BM rep and see what they say, but I prefer to get options from people who aren't trying to sell a product (hence my question here first...).

Reactions: 2

finishesbykevyn

· #5 · 25 d ago

First off, what a beauty project. My question is how are you planning to access? Lift? To me it looks to be previously stained and maybe cleared. Either way I would approach this in the same way. If you do quote for cleaning first, I would think a wipe with a damp rag with just water would be sufficient. After that 1 or 2 coats of a self sealing waterborne clear. Oil would be nasty in there. What ever you can source locally. Maybe something with a 10 sheen? I would quote on a per coat basis and see how it is looking after first coat.. Thats a big ass ceiling!

Reactions: 1

PApaints

Discussion Starter · #6 · 24 d ago

finishesbykevyn said:
First off, what a beauty project. My question is how are you planning to access? Lift? To me it looks to be previously stained and maybe cleared. Either way I would approach this in the same way. If you do quote for cleaning first, I would think a wipe with a damp rag with just water would be sufficient. After that 1 or 2 coats of a self sealing waterborne clear. Oil would be nasty in there. What ever you can source locally. Maybe something with a 10 sheen? I would quote on a per coat basis and see how it is looking after first coat.. Thats a big ass ceiling!

Thanks, I agree... we've done a lot of churches, some far bigger sanctuaries - but their normally plaster or steel/metal... some drywall. We've never done a wood finish on one. Do you think a waterborne would penetrate and finish evenly as an oil would? I was assuming a long-oil product would be the way to go on old wood for penetration and wetting purposes, but I'm certainly open to a waterborne if they can perform like an oil. Again... not my area of expertise.

finishesbykevyn

· #7 · 24 d ago

PApaints said:
Thanks, I agree... we've done a lot of churches, some far bigger sanctuaries - but their normally plaster or steel/metal... some drywall. We've never done a wood finish on one. Do you think a waterborne would penetrate and finish evenly as an oil would? I was assuming a long-oil product would be the way to go on old wood for penetration and wetting purposes, but I'm certainly open to a waterborne if they can perform like an oil. Again... not my area of expertise.

Absolutely. Waterborne clears have come a long way. Every company has their own particular products, so I'm not advocating any product in particular. Saman is a product I use locally and is super easy to brush or spray. I've even brushed Minwax waterborne Spar Varnish on a front door, and it turned out fantastic. Not my first choice but was the only thing locally available..Plus, that much oil in that space will burn your eyes out.

Redux

· #8 · 24 d ago (Edited)

Being the ceiling material appears to be undersides of roof decking planks, I’d be reluctant to install a film finish which could impair the wood’s ability to breathe. Might be best just to chemically clean with DNA or Cleanwoode followed by a couple of thinned out coats of a non yellowing penetrating tung oil sealer just to nourish the wood and enhance the color.

Edit: Might consider thinned out boiled flaxseed oil which is more architecturally & period correct than tung but it slightly ambers. If opting for tung or flaxseed oil, make certain it has no alkyd resin fortifiers which turn very yellow.

Reactions: 5

RH

· #9 · 24 d ago

I think taking one or more of your reps to see it is a good idea. They will want to make the best recommendation possible so I doubt they will make a suggestion just so they can sell you something. The cost is going to be what it is. If you don’t think you can trust your reps, maybe it’s time to find some place else to buy your supplies.

I think your concern about whatever you put up there being sucked into the wood is a valid one. Therefore, I would suggest going with the flattest sheen product you can. That way, the areas where the product doesn’t get absorbed won’t appear shinier than those where it’s disappeared into the wood. With a higher sheen product, you may end up having to put on multiple coats just to get a consistent looking appearance. Plus, I personally never thought any type of sheen on a ceiling was a good look.

Reactions: 4

katindunn

· #10 · 21 d ago

PApaints said:
I've got an old (100+ years) church ceiling that we are to seal/varnish. It's beautiful, and in great shape. Nothing has been done to it since at least the 60's, if not longer. The stain is in great shape, but there is no varnish or clear sealer of any kind visibly present.
I haven't spoken to the customer yet about film build or sheen options yet.... we don't do much wood finishing (aside from 100 decks or so a year)... so I wanted to educate myself on options before rolling them out to the customer. Any insight from knowledgeable people would be appreciated.
My assumption is that this wood is going to take finish like a sponge and that I should avoid trying to put much of a sheen on it at all... it could take 5 coats to get it consistent. I'm thinking more of a penetrating low-sheen sealer... but I'm not glued to this thought -- just my beginning thought process.

pic google drive folder

PApaints said:
I've got an old (100+ years) church ceiling that we are to seal/varnish. It's beautiful, and in great shape. Nothing has been done to it since at least the 60's, if not longer. The stain is in great shape, but there is no varnish or clear sealer of any kind visibly present.
I haven't spoken to the customer yet about film build or sheen options yet.... we don't do much wood finishing (aside from 100 decks or so a year)... so I wanted to educate myself on options before rolling them out to the customer. Any insight from knowledgeable people would be appreciated.
My assumption is that this wood is going to take finish like a sponge and that I should avoid trying to put much of a sheen on it at all... it could take 5 coats to get it consistent. I'm thinking more of a penetrating low-sheen sealer... but I'm not glued to this thought -- just my beginning thought process.

pic google drive folder

RH said:

I think taking one or more of your reps to see it is a good idea. They will want to make the best recommendation possible so I doubt they will make a suggestion just so they can sell you something. The cost is going to be what it is. If you don’t think you can trust your reps, maybe it’s time to find some place else to buy your supplies.

I think your concern about whatever you put up there being sucked into the wood is a valid one. Therefore, I would suggest going with the flattest sheen product you can. That way, the areas where the product doesn’t get absorbed won’t appear shinier than those where it’s disappeared into the wood. With a higher sheen product, you may end up having to put on multiple coats just to get a consistent looking appearance. Plus, I personally never thought any type of sheen on a ceiling was a good look.

Click to expand...

PApaints said:

I've got an old (100+ years) church ceiling that we are to seal/varnish. It's beautiful, and in great shape. Nothing has been done to it since at least the 60's, if not longer. The stain is in great shape, but there is no varnish or clear sealer of any kind visibly present.
I haven't spoken to the customer yet about film build or sheen options yet.... we don't do much wood finishing (aside from 100 decks or so a year)... so I wanted to educate myself on options before rolling them out to the customer. Any insight from knowledgeable people would be appreciated.
My assumption is that this wood is going to take finish like a sponge and that I should avoid trying to put much of a sheen on it at all... it could take 5 coats to get it consistent. I'm thinking more of a penetrating low-sheen sealer... but I'm not glued to this thought -- just my beginning thought process.

pic google drive folder

Click to expand...

PApaints said:

I've got an old (100+ years) church ceiling that we are to seal/varnish. It's beautiful, and in great shape. Nothing has been done to it since at least the 60's, if not longer. The stain is in great shape, but there is no varnish or clear sealer of any kind visibly present.
I haven't spoken to the customer yet about film build or sheen options yet.... we don't do much wood finishing (aside from 100 decks or so a year)... so I wanted to educate myself on options before rolling them out to the customer. Any insight from knowledgeable people would be appreciated.
My assumption is that this wood is going to take finish like a sponge and that I should avoid trying to put much of a sheen on it at all... it could take 5 coats to get it consistent. I'm thinking more of a penetrating low-sheen sealer... but I'm not glued to this thought -- just my beginning thought process.

pic google drive folder

Click to expand...

Have you thought of just rubbing linseed oil or tung oil with steel wool pads on the ceiling? I have treated many old wood beams, doors etc. with this method (learned from an old hunter who lived in a cabin near the Upper Peninsula.)

PApaints said:

I've got an old (100+ years) church ceiling that we are to seal/varnish. It's beautiful, and in great shape. Nothing has been done to it since at least the 60's, if not longer. The stain is in great shape, but there is no varnish or clear sealer of any kind visibly present.
I haven't spoken to the customer yet about film build or sheen options yet.... we don't do much wood finishing (aside from 100 decks or so a year)... so I wanted to educate myself on options before rolling them out to the customer. Any insight from knowledgeable people would be appreciated.
My assumption is that this wood is going to take finish like a sponge and that I should avoid trying to put much of a sheen on it at all... it could take 5 coats to get it consistent. I'm thinking more of a penetrating low-sheen sealer... but I'm not glued to this thought -- just my beginning thought process.

pic google drive folder

Click to expand...

katindunn

· #11 · 21 d ago

Have you thought of rubbing linseed or tung oil on the ceiling using steel wool pads? I have treated many old beams & doors with this method (learned from a hunter who lived in a log cabin near the Upper Peninsula.)

Reactions: 1

Seth Adams

· #12 · 16 d ago (Edited)

PApaints said:
I've got an old (100+ years) church ceiling that we are to seal/varnish. It's beautiful, and in great snaptube vidmate shape. Nothing has been done to it since at least the 60's, if not longer. The stain is in great shape, but there is no varnish or clear sealer of any kind visibly present.
I haven't spoken to the customer yet about film build or sheen options yet.... we don't do much wood finishing (aside from 100 decks or so a year)... so I wanted to educate myself on options before rolling them out to the customer. Any insight from knowledgeable people would be appreciated.
My assumption is that this wood is going to take finish like a sponge and that I should avoid trying to put much of a sheen on it at all... it could take 5 coats to get it consistent. I'm thinking more of a penetrating low-sheen sealer... but I'm not glued to this thought -- just my beginning thought process.

pic google drive folder

That is persistence if it's for real more than 100yrs old !!

PApaints

Discussion Starter · #13 · 9 d ago

Tung or Flax seed may be worth looking into. Application would add a bit of cost, but may be worth demoing in one of the back rooms to see how each system works out. One of my foremen recommended Zar Antique Oil Based Polyurethane Flat, which I feel is a good fit -- but I think demoing a couple options is a good idea.

PRC

· #14 · 9 d ago

If I were you I'd have my rep come out and spec the job based on the customer's goals for the project.

Redux

· #15 · 9 d ago (Edited)

One thing to consider if applying a film finish is it’s probably a “cold deck roof” aka not insulated or outsulated. If that’s the case and the ceiling is actual roof decking, the wood needs to breathe in order to desorb moisture from seasonal condensation. A film finish might cause the decking to retain moisture, potentially resulting in mold, premature decay, film failure, and/or moisture beading up and dripping from or down the ceiling.

1 - 15 of 15 Posts