[Chameleon]

Situation: I have approx. 12 factory preprimed french doors and casing

Our proceedure: 1st we prepared the doors by sanding, caulking, and spackling nail holes
Sprayed 1st coat of Sherwin Williams Latex A-100 gloss enamel
2nd prep, check nail holes, light sand, dust off and applied 2nd coat.

We allowed 2 days drytime on the doors and trim, masked them off (normal proceedure for us) and sprayed the walls.

During tear down, the finish on the frames peeled off in sheets.....literally !

But the weird thing is, the factory primer is lifting from the casings, and the doors the paint will not even bond to. Has anyone run into this ?????

This is the second time this has happend over 12 years, both times within 1 year. The first time it only happend on the casings and Baseboards. The trim manufacturer had done tests stating that the primer was defective. But this time around the trim company, and door company are saying their primers are good, and of coarse my paint is no good.

 

[HomeGuardPaints]

those pre primed boards are , most of the time you have to reprime because they use inferior materials

 

[Rich]

Has anyone run into this ?????The trim manufacturer had done tests stating that the primer was defective. But this time around the trim company, and door company are saying their primers are good, and of coarse my paint is no good.

I can understand it happening because nothing is perfect, but I don't agree with the company not helping you more than saying your paint isn't good.

I would think SW would have more extensive testing of their paints in comparison to wood suppliers. I would have a rep come and check things out if you haven't already. Kinda bogus situation...

if nothing changes, maybe it's time for the old switcharoo to a new supplier

(another thing...oil primer is superior to latex any day, and are you backbrushing after spraying?)

 

[Chameleon]

those pre primed boards are , most of the time you have to reprime because they use inferior materials

Understood....But if I applied a primer on top of their "inferior" crap, which in my eyes is failing, it would then appear that it was my primer that was failing. Meaning, no matter what goes on top of their primer, the root of the problem still lies in their primer. Covering it with anything, is bound to fail. I am complete ly confused !!!!:cursing:

 

[HomeGuardPaints]

Sorry I didn't completely read your post, I thought the failure was the top coat adhering to the primer, now i realize its the primer not holding the wood. That sucks, I've never heard of that but i'm not surprised. hopefully you will be able to staighten it out with the co.

 

[Chameleon]

I can understand it happening because nothing is perfect, but I don't agree with the company not helping you more than saying your paint isn't good.

I would think SW would have more extensive testing of their paints in comparison to wood suppliers. I would have a rep come and check things out if you haven't already. Kinda bogus situation...

if nothing changes, maybe it's time for the old switcharoo to a new supplier

(another thing...oil primer is superior to latex any day, and are you backbrushing after spraying?)

I have had SW out there....4 times, the testing has come back each time showing "proper application,and preparations with mil thickness". Also the analysis states that the primer is actually failing, unfortunately, this result has not worked in my favor with the G.C. and all fingers have been pointed to me.....
Rich...it is a spray finish on the trim, no back brushing....also it is a deep based color which doesn't allow much room for brush marks.
And you are right, to another supplier I go when this is over.

 

[vermontpainter]

If the factory coating is lifting right down to bare wood, then it is an obvious primer failure. If your product lifted and their coating is still intact, you have an issue. If its not too late, save your empties for a while until the whole thing is resolved. You will want to document product info and batch #'s as a cya.

 

[Housepainter]

I am not sure but you may want to try an independent testing group. Yes it will cost you for the test. I wonder was the bare wood treated before the application of the factory primer. I believe that may be the root of the problem.

 

[Joewho]

Is there such a thing as an emlusified primer to soak through the factory primer?

 

[Chameleon]

I am not sure but you may want to try an independent testing group. Yes it will cost you for the test. I wonder was the bare wood treated before the application of the factory primer. I believe that may be the root of the problem.

Well as I had posted previously, Sherwin Williams has tested it 4 times.....then I thought I would be sneaky about it and take a sample to Vista paints. Reason being is....well SW can basically tell me whatever they want. But last week Vista had called me with the results, and pretty much read the exact same as SW.
To answer your question....these doors aren't real wood, they are the particle board doors, then primed. I have a theory....and I will post it in another reply about the possiblities.

 

[slickshift]

Obvious primer failure

 

[Chameleon]

Thanks for all the feedback....It is appreciated, especially coming from fellow painters, and not homeowner and G.C.'s. I have contacted the door company, and am awaiting their call.

 

[Housepainter]

If the doors are true particle board. The glue is most likely water based. I am not a chemist but...just as when painting over some of the newer wall paper..the paint can cause the water base glue to release...

Just a thought

 

[Rich]

If the doors are true particle board. The glue is most likely water based. I am not a chemist but...just as when painting over some of the newer wall paper..the paint can cause the water base glue to release...

Just a thought

hmmm...very good idea there- sort of like painting a textured ceiling with latex if the ceiling has never been primed

bad bad situation...been there done that

 

[slickshift]

...which is why I like to prime "pre-primed" with a sssllllooowww drying alkyd primer

Unless it comes from a few trusted sources
I don't trust the pre-prime to stand on it's own

 

[Chameleon]

Good points !!!

Housepainter, Rich and Slickshift ......exactly where I was going with it !!!! :thumbup: Who says Painting isn't for rocket scientists !

My theory: The factory primer re-activates the bonding glue in the doors
The glue then mixes with the primer or somehow, rises to the surface.

My enamel (wet) hits the door, and whamo.....no adhesion. So my question is...Latex and acrylics, are they compatible with their glue ? I don't think so.