[Tonyg]

This house was "pressure" washed (low pressure under 100psi) Saturday with warm water/soap/bleach. The HO had this trim wrapped and shutters put up 3 years ago. The contractor could not find matching shutters of the same color so the contractor "hired a painter" to paint the vinyl shutters the right color. Evidently there was a proplem with the 2nd floor shutters - HO said the painter put the second coat on too soon and it peeled up, and the vinyl contractor agreed to put new shutters up but only on the second floor.

With warm soapy water and about a 5-10min dwell time this is what happened with a low psi rinse. All the first floor shutters were painted and they all began bubbling up but we stopped as soon as the first two began stripping off. I am not sure if he used an interior latex, maybe there was a little oil residue on vinyl, or what. I have an appointment with him tomorrow evening and will probably end up installing two new shutters that he still had in the shed. I know this was not my fault but will end up eating it either way.

What is the most likely culprit??

 

[johnthepainter]

maybe the shutters had some residue from the mfg process, and werent washed before he painted them

 

[ProWallGuy]

Whatever might have been needed to be done to them before painting (sanding, washing, priming, etc.), I'd say ZERO prep work was done before the application.

 

[BMDealer]

Probably little to no prep work done........another thing, were these done in warm weather in direct sunlight while the shutters were on the house? Almost looks as thought the surface temp of the shutters was above what the finish could handle.....just a thought.

 

[Tonyg]

Probably little to no prep work done........another thing, were these done in warm weather in direct sunlight while the shutters were on the house? Almost looks as thought the surface temp of the shutters was above what the finish could handle.....just a thought.

I don't know what the conditions were when it was originally applied but these are on a covered porch so no direct sun to speak of. He did mention that there was a problem with the second story as well but the original contractor replaced those after I am assuming immediate failure. Once dried the paint hardened back up before I left the house.

 

[NACE]

This is an incompatibility issue. There is a contamination or residue that is preventing the acrylic from grabbing to the surface. Test one shutter after cleaning and stripping to insure that 100% acrylic primer does not crawl or blister, top coat with 100% acrylic, and you should be ok. Is there a solvent or soap or some kind of film that remains on the surface? Is there a profile that acrylic can grab onto? Something is interfering with proper film formation. I do not believe that placement of the shutters is relevant. Is there a smell of any kind? What does that back of the peeling paint smell like? Likely this can be corrected if the proper PH is insured. Can you test the pH with litmus paper and distilled water? It should be at 7, not too high in the 10-13 pH range. Just a thought.

 

[slickshift]

What is the most likely culprit??

Top three choices:
1) Crappy prep/app
2) Crappy product
3) Both

 

[NEPS.US]

Throw them out and go spend 30 bucks for a new pair and paint them. I bet you'll have more than 15 bucks a shutter in prep labor in getting them right to paint.

 

[DeanV]

There are some shutters out there in factory standard colors that are not paintable too, from what I have heard there are some standard color ones from HD that cannot be painted.

 

[EricTheHandyman]

I used to be a coatings failure inspector, and almost every case of peeling/bubbling that I ever saw was caused by a contaminant on the surface of the substrate (in other words, lousy prep work).

 

[Mopaint]

I think it was the mold release agent. They wax the inside of the mold to make it pop out at the factory. If the shutters had weathered a little this wouldn't have happened. I agree buy new shutters wipe them down with denatured alc. and repaint with any 100% acrylic. MOPAINT

 

[johnthepainter]

This is an incompatibility issue. There is a contamination or residue that is preventing the acrylic from grabbing to the surface. Test one shutter after cleaning and stripping to insure that 100% acrylic primer does not crawl or blister, top coat with 100% acrylic, and you should be ok. Is there a solvent or soap or some kind of film that remains on the surface? Is there a profile that acrylic can grab onto? Something is interfering with proper film formation. I do not believe that placement of the shutters is relevant. Is there a smell of any kind? What does that back of the peeling paint smell like? Likely this can be corrected if the proper PH is insured. Can you test the pH with litmus paper and distilled water? It should be at 7, not too high in the 10-13 pH range. Just a thought.

yes,,, i always test the ph with distilled water and litmus paper on all of the crappy vinyl shutters i paint,,,,,,possibly perform a biopsy, then make a call to nasa on a red phone.

 

[Primer Guy]

All plastic shutters are not created equal. It really depends on what they are made of- Polyethylene- paint won't stick to, Polypropylene- XIM Plastic and Vinyl primer- acrylic latex topcoat won't stick without it- PVC- you should prime a clean surface but quality latex should work.

Other factors mentioned above like mold release, oily film from any one of a number of detergents, airborne contaminants etc could contribute to the paint adhesion problems.

 

[Tonyg]

Thanks everyone.

I pretty much figured it was residue since they were painted right out of the box but I gave him all the possible scenarios listed above - all of which was not my fault or responsibility to fix. When I was sure he realized that it wasn't me, and almost felt bad putting the responsibility my way, I took down two of the shutters and installed two new ones that he had left in his shed. He will be ordering new ones soon to replace the others.

I knew it was going to be one of those that I would have to eat. Doing nothing was not an option and doing something at least left the impression that he knew it wasn't my fault but fixed it anyway.

 

[Joewho]

Check the wrappers to see if they are paintable or not.

That's right, home depot has shutters that are NOT paintable.

The failure in the pictures looks like the paint was exosed to rain and wind before they were dry. It also looks like the paint was applied to heavy to avoid an extra coat.

 

[CApainter]

There's no doubt that there is a failure of paint adhesion. Were there any signs of failure prior to your pressure washing?
After three years you would think it would show signs of failure. I'm guessing a high concentration of cleaner along with the warm water contributed to the delamination. Still no excuse for a piss poor prep job.

 

[Tonyg]

There were no signs of a problem before we washed it. The paint was tight (dry) and looked blotchy, almost burnishing, but you can scratch it up with your fingernail. If I had looked at it close I would not have been able to anticipate this.

The home owners happy. He went from "I thought you were using low pressure and it wouldn't hurt the paint" on the phone to his email this morning:

"The house definitely looks better and we really appreciate the fact that you came over to change out the shudders even though it wasn't your fault.

It is very obvious that you take pride in your work and want to make sure your customers are satisfied with the service provided and that is a quality hard to find these days."

 

[capitalcity painting]

The reason the paint looked ok before washing is because the good latex's out there like Duration can stick to almost anything supposedly. Whats really going on is it sticks well to itself like a mold over the shutter. You basically split the mold with the pressure washer, the paint was never really sticking to the shutter. Charlie

 

[Boyfromthenorth]

I'm with "Primer Guy". I mean, sure it could just be dirty or have residue. Really though, plastics and vinyl are a pain. Use a bonding primer. XIM's plastic/vinyl is great. UGL also has a great bonding primer called STIX. It comes in oil and latex. Good luck!