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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all. My paint supply store has a customer who's building a pool inside his house. They have problems with painting the ceilings. The contractor has painted part of the ceiling and it shows a lot of roller marks. Actually, they've painted it twice (not pro painters), and it stills doesn't look great at certain times of day (because of the light). There're a lot of windows on both sides of the building. The ceiling is 60X30 feet, with a joint division in the middle, so it's like two 30X30 feet squares. They are using Aura Bath and Spa because of the level of humidity it supports (55% I think). So far the ceiling has been rolled. However he likes the finish of Aura bath and spa. I know aura ain't the best paint for ceilings, but even with K508 I know it couldn't be perfect, better, but not perfect (rolled).

The customer of course isn't satisfied with the ceiling and my supplier has called me for help knowing I have a sprayer (Titan impact 440). I by far don't have much experience with spraying, but I offered to give it a shot, knowing that I wouldn't pay for material, I would be paid to apply primer (will mention it below) and that if the finish job ain't perfect I won't be paid for labor. I don't mind doing it because I need practice in that field and I care about doing a good job, but at the same time I'm not an expert on the sprayer. The painted part of the ceiling and the untouched rock will be primed with fresh start oil (don't know which version yet). I won't spray it because I only have one sprayer and I clean it quite well after each usage because I don't do enough spray jobs to have it full of product all the time.

Keep in mind that here spraying is not very common and few contractors own one. Probably bigger contractors have more expertise with the sprayer, which I suggested to my supplier, but he likes how I work, know that I care about doing the best job I can and wants me to give it a shot.

Right now the situation is really bad for spraying or painting because there's an uneven hole dug for the pool and the scaffholding is quite bad and dangerous, especially when one (the painter), needs perfectly clear path to walk at a continuous pace to spray (or even roll for that matter). I said I wouldn't do nothing unless a temporary even floor (plywood style) of the whole area has been built for me to be able to give it my best shot, and that any painter would need a decent support to obtain the best results possible regarding the paint job (product used, ceiling height, ceiling dimentions, windows/light entrance). I suggested he'd get a second expertise opinion but he trusted my judgement (more than I do myself lol, although it's what makes sense to me).

My supplier has come back to me and said that the client accepted to put the money to build a floor. As far as I understand the customer has money, so that doesn't seem to be the issue, plus the time and the level of quality of the job. At the same time my integrity level combined with my honest assesment of my exprience with kind of job (size, spray) leaves me not wanting to benifit from it unless the job is accepted.

So I turn to the community for help and advice on the matter. From what I understand here there seems to be a lot of high end contractor in the US that really know how to do great jobs on hard projects, and spraying seems to be more common. Any thoughts would be appreciated. For example is there another product that would look good on the ceiling that can accept this level of humidity (or a product that I could put in K508 for holding againts the conditions)? What tip size should I use? How would you go about the spraying? (2 coats, 3-4 light coats), other points to consider. I know about even distance and rhythm from the surface, but I don't have lots of practice with it. Quality level here is what's wanted so if more lighter coats with sanding in between are need then so it is and I will charge accordingly.

Thanks in advance for the help.
 

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Re roll the ceiling with zinnser gardz, it's a clear product which dries clear and seals off the ceiling. Wait for the 3 hr re coat time and roll one thick coat of the aura bath and spa with extender in it and let dry. Once dry be amazed of your perfect ceiling.

Honestly no matter how many times you try and roll it out without using gardz you will probably see the roller marks. Once you use gardz it leaves a hard finish and once you apply your finish coat you will realize you have 10x the amount of time to roll it out as the paint won't absorb into the gardz. It sits on top and stays wet for a long time leaving you tons of time to roll it out.


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Re roll the ceiling with zinnser gardz, it's a clear product which dries clear and seals off the ceiling. Wait for the 3 hr re coat time and roll one thick coat of the aura bath and spa with extender in it and let dry. Once dry be amazed of your perfect ceiling.

Honestly no matter how many times you try and roll it out without using gardz you will probably see the roller marks. Once you use gardz it leaves a hard finish and once you apply your finish coat you will realize you have 10x the amount of time to roll it out as the paint won't absorb into the gardz. It sits on top and stays wet for a long time leaving you tons of time to roll it out.


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That sounds like good advice, especially because of the lack of spraying experience of the original poster.
 

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It's all about sealing and getting a good consistent prime coat. It is a huge help.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re roll the ceiling with zinnser gardz, it's a clear product which dries clear and seals off the ceiling. Wait for the 3 hr re coat time and roll one thick coat of the aura bath and spa with extender in it and let dry. Once dry be amazed of your perfect ceiling.

Honestly no matter how many times you try and roll it out without using gardz you will probably see the roller marks. Once you use gardz it leaves a hard finish and once you apply your finish coat you will realize you have 10x the amount of time to roll it out as the paint won't absorb into the gardz. It sits on top and stays wet for a long time leaving you tons of time to roll it out.


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Problem is we don't have Guardz in Canada yet. They're introducing a different version soon I think, to go with the specs needed by our country. Could other primer work? Bin, Fresh start, Insl-x primers, anything, the best you can find other than guardz.
 

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The humidity is a problem in a pool area and I know nothing about Aura bath and ceiling. The problem in a pool area is not only the humidity level but also the chlorine level and other pool chemicals that are going to be present. The chlorine level in a pool is much higher than in tap water in a bathroom. You would be better off using a pre- catalyzed epoxy, water base for the lid. S/W makes a good one. If you could stand to work with it a two part water base would be even better, but you were thinking about using an oil base product and that is as bad as water base component epoxy.
 

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Problem is we don't have Guardz in Canada yet. They're introducing a different version soon I think, to go with the specs needed by our country. Could other primer work? Bin, Fresh start, Insl-x primers, anything, the best you can find other than guardz.
SW Problock is a primer/sealer that works great for high humid. Not sure how bad the rat tails are but you are going to want to give everything a good sanding. Hopefully you can knock them down some.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Ok so I think I was mistaken about Guardz, it's now available in Canada. From what I understand the version was modified to compel to Canada's requirements, but I'll check with my supplier and the reps to make sure it's as solid as the version you guys've been praising about so much :)

As for the Aura Bath and Spa I talked to my supplier and the rep informed him that it was designed for inside pools chlorine or salt, so we should be good with it. He's also the one who suggested the Fresh start oil F024 ( http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/...r&s_cu=clean_solvent&piSheen=024&advs=0&tab=3 ) for the same reasons mentionned in post #2.

As for rolling one coat of the Aura bath and spa you think it'll be enough? Will doing a second coat be a problem? I usually roll ceilings with 13 mm sleeve and sometimes 15 mm (about 1/2 inch and 5/8 inch respectively), needs 2 coats. Some of the rock hasn't been primed or painted yet, so I guess 2 coats will be needed on new primer, whether it's white or transparent.

They rolled the last coats with extender, but that wasn't enough, I'll make sure to use it according to the suggested specs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
SW Problock is a primer/sealer that works great for high humid. Not sure how bad the rat tails are but you are going to want to give everything a good sanding. Hopefully you can knock them down some.
Actually it's more roller marks of start and stop and overlap than lines. There wasn't much light today and I didn't see any thick lines of edges cause of too much pressure on the roller, but I'll make sure to have a good look and sand what's needed before priming.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Let's assume spraying ain't out of the equation yet, using guardz or other equivalent primer if such a thing exists, would you go about spraying many thin coats, spray one-2 thicker coats, tip size (FF tip maybe???).
 

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They are looking to you for the solution so I would do a couple things. Have your rep write a spec, you'll want them tied to this one. Keep the owner in the loop and get their approval on the plan.
If the roller marks don't easily sand smooth then it needs point up or skimmed, particularly if the finish is anything with a sheen, even matte. Make sure they know that if prior imperfections aren't fixed they will be visible. Then spray it off the deck they'll build for you. If you're more comfortable rolling then get a guy to backroll after spray. With ceilings that have lighting issues then each coat needs done start to finish with 2 guys maintaining a wet edge. Use an 18" roller and go edge to edge, no transitions the other direction mid ceiling.
 

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Let's assume spraying ain't out of the equation yet, using guardz or other equivalent primer if such a thing exists, would you go about spraying many thin coats, spray one-2 thicker coats, tip size (FF tip maybe???).
No FF tip. I'd use a 621 but if you are more comfortable with smaller then 617. I would also be doing primer and 2 topcoats. The time to do this ceiling right is now, during construction, not later once pool is in. Are you bidding this?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
No FF tip. I'd use a 621 but if you are more comfortable with smaller then 617. I would also be doing primer a 2 topcoats. The time to do this ceiling right is now, during construction, not later once pool is in. Are you bidding this?
Of course the ceiling will be painted before the pool. I'll bid on it yes, I don't have an idea yet of the price (thinking 500-1000), and would understandably like it if I end up making money on it instead of having a non satisfactory deception (in that case I would at least not pay to work though). I usually don't do that, but in that case I made an exception.

I think a proper height from floor to ceiling would be around 9 feet, they asked me what height I would like the floor to be built.
 

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Of course the ceiling will be painted before the pool. I'll bid on it yes, I don't have an idea yet of the price (thinking 500-1000), and would understandably like it if I end up making money on it instead of having a non satisfactory deception (in that case I would at least not pay to work though). I usually don't do that, but in that case I made an exception.

I think a proper height from floor to ceiling would be around 9 feet, they asked me what height I would like the floor to be built.
All i meant by "do it right" was to not try and 1 coat it.
I like to spray ceilings at 8' with a 10" extension on the gun.
Do those numbers include paint?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
All i meant by "do it right" was to not try and 1 coat it.
I like to spray ceilings at 8' with a 10" extension on the gun.
Do those numbers include paint?
No worries :) The numbers don't include paint. Like I disclaimed to them I don't want risking having to pay to work, but I'm willing to give it a shot for free if it's not cutting the mustard, but the client is paying the paint. However if it looks good, I'll be collecting a fair amount for a high end job. I'll also be collecting a minimum for primer application and prep, so I don't end up working 2 days for free.

The reason I offered to do it is that there's no other to learn about those sensitive issues but to dig in and give it a shot. I'm also very meticulous and that's why my supplier has asked for me, amongts all the contractors he knows.
 

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2 days? Slow down there buddy. Day 1 prep, 2 prime, 3 topcoat, 4 second coat if needed.

Spray and back roll because you have the best opportunity to keep that paint wet.

Let it dry overnight between coats. Don't risk the job by rushing your record time.

I'd bill out for at least 20 man hours, because prep time will be extremely critical. This is not a production job, you are their Picasso so simmer down and ride that gravy train.
 

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Homedepot sells the gardz., That's where I buy it. I live in Canada as well (Edmonton)

Also use a 18mm microfibre sleeve and one coat it. The way I see it is there is already paint in the ceiling right? Well, roll the gardz on which is clear. Let it dry, then do 1 nice coat and be done with it. Don't think to much on this one.

Also, if you can't spray or don't have the technique I guarantee you will have shadowing or fingering in you finish. Then you will be back at square one.


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