painting companies, vs. fly by nite cut throat painters

6773 Views 30 Replies 18 Participants Last post by Wolfgang, Feb 10, 2010

painter jeff

Discussion Starter · Nov 30, 2007

In todays economy we need to start standing together to remove these painters from the field of painting. All they do is bring the price of painting down, that small legal corporations find it hard to compete. They also give painting a bad name.

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

Wolverine

· #2 · Dec 1, 2007

See my answer if the other thread...

http://www.painttalk.com/showthread.php?t=749

Again... these people come out of the woodworks because they are just regular guys who are trying to survive and feed their families. As Americans have become greedy and elevated their need for cheap stuff over buying American made products that support American jobs, unemployed American manufacturing employees have become painters, and handymen... etc.

The best way to remove these painters from your field is to support companies the keep them on the production lines of America. It's funny how helping others always comes back to help ourselves!

Joewho

· #3 · Jan 9, 2008

Wolverine said:
See my answer if the other thread...

http://www.painttalk.com/showthread.php?t=749

Again... these people come out of the woodworks because they are just regular guys who are trying to survive and feed their families. As Americans have become greedy and elevated their need for cheap stuff over buying American made products that support American jobs, unemployed American manufacturing employees have become painters, and handymen... etc.

The best way to remove these painters from your field is to support companies the keep them on the production lines of America. It's funny how helping others always comes back to help ourselves!

I agree completly. What goes around comes around, it just don't go in a straight line.

Tmrrptr

· #4 · Jan 9, 2008

Yup.

Buy a toyota same as shoot yerself in foot.

CobraCDN

· #5 · Jan 9, 2008

I agree in part, theory is good. But.. ahh don't you like the "But's" I went out last fall and started looking at trucks, I wanted a quad cab long box, leather Int, diesel 4x4. Now MSRP on the Silverado was $72,000. I'm sorry they don't make a machine worth that much to me. I ended up buying an 05. with all the options, diesel etc for $35,000. To be honest if I had of been hell bound on brand new, I would quite possibly ended up buying a foreign make. I'm all for supporting my country and my local business. But sometimes they make it impossible to justify.

Cheers

premierpainter

· #6 · Jan 9, 2008

CobraCDN said:
I agree in part, theory is good. But.. ahh don't you like the "But's" I went out last fall and started looking at trucks, I wanted a quad cab long box, leather Int, diesel 4x4. Now MSRP on the Silverado was $72,000. I'm sorry they don't make a machine worth that much to me. I ended up buying an 05. with all the options, diesel etc for $35,000. To be honest if I had of been hell bound on brand new, I would quite possibly ended up buying a foreign make. I'm all for supporting my country and my local business. But sometimes they make it impossible to justify.

Cheers

$72k Canadian? I have never heard of a truck costing that much. :blink:

CobraCDN

· #7 · Jan 9, 2008

Ya full load with the diesel (2500HD) thats the MSRP, I've heard some getting deals down to 65,000 in Canada, Some Canadians have been cross border shopping and saving up to $20,000. Dollars been close to par for the last while.

Cheers

vermontpainter

· #8 · Jan 9, 2008 (Edited)

The points being made so far on this are valid. However there is another element of actual lowballing blow and go guys calling themselves painters and running around giving us all a bad name. They may not have been laid off from manufacturing jobs. Sometimes they are just working enough to support their habits. Lets face it, all these guys "need" is a car, a 4 ft step ladder, a brush and roller and they can play the part. We try to take the positive out of it and emphasize that we are professional, insured, incorporated, registered, blah blah blah...It amazes me that a customer who is in a professional field with a nice house in a nice neighborhood would even let some of these guys in their house. And lord knows we have been called in after the fact to clean up after some of them and believe it or not the customer will then sit there and say that they dont have much budget left since that guy took them so bad. Hard to have sympathy, but ultimately the bigger loser is the customer. Lets just hope it they get it right next time. This is the sort of consumer "greed" that we all touched on in the hilarious craigslist postal thread last week.

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plainpainter

· #9 · Jan 9, 2008

I think I am fault as well, I have given jobs to guys who weren't painters and paid as much as $20/hr. I didn't respect myself and my own profession by not asking for credentials nor a resume - I just hired these guys who show up on my porch each spring 'looking for work'. I had a guy knock on my door a couple of days ago looking for work. Sure I am a professional and do professional work - but I have never searched for truly professional help. As I expand again - I will honor the trade by only hiring a 'true' painter. And I won't expand any faster if I can't find guys to fill the shoes.

vermontpainter

· #10 · Jan 9, 2008

Interviewing should perhaps be one of our next threads here. In a nutshell, people are amazingly adroit at telling you what you want to hear in the interview. In our last round of interviews, after initial screening, phone conversations and at least one face to face interview we had our finalists come to our shop. We wheel out a cart with everything a painter might need to paint one door and have them paint one side of one door. Watching how they use the resources available, do the brushwork and how the finished product looks tells us exactly what their professional level is. This way you can accurately determine starting pay.

bikerboy

· #11 · Jan 10, 2008

Toyota has plants here in the U.S.

The Diesel Silverado uses a Mitsubishi engine. (in fact all GM pickups use the Japanese engine)

The Painter Guy

· #12 · Jan 10, 2008

lowballers as job security

I agree with bikerboy
half the time you have no idea where the parts that make up the whole are being made.
Out of curiosity if you need medicine for you or yours are you buying it here in the U.S. or getting the same product from Canada?
I definitely like the interview that vermont painter uses for determining a persons skill. But it's still a crapshoot in determining a potential employees personality. One last thought, last year a major percentage of my income was earned from homeowners and contractors who either called us in to replace a paint company or corrrect someone elses work. So you could look at them as job security.
Painterguy

vermontpainter

· #13 · Jan 10, 2008

After the screening and the interview process, if they actually show up to paint the door its probably a good sign about their attitude and personality.

Joewho

· #14 · Jan 11, 2008

vermontpainter said:
After the screening and the interview process, if they actually show up to paint the door its probably a good sign about their attitude and personality.

I agree in part, but, it seems to me that a lot of painters have skipped over the basics and gone right to the brush, roller or sprayer.

Prep is everything. To me, using tape is a job all in itself. I believe someone should be very good and fast with tape, as if it were the only job, not just a step.

Same with cutting in. A painter should be worked and worked until they know how to cut in, how to get maximum load on the brush without dripping, etc.

You have a good point though. I'd be bit embarrassed to paint a door while you watch, but it makes sense in the attitude dept.

(I'll give away all my secrets for a t-shirt)

vermontpainter

· #15 · Jan 11, 2008

well...we dont pull up a chair or anything, but just kind of keep an eye on how they prep, if they vaccuum or tack cloth, what brush they choose, how they mix fluotrol, etc. If you have done a few doors in your day its not a big deal.

RCP

· #16 · Jan 11, 2008

Not to derail thread, reminded me of many years ago when I answered an ad for "painters with their own tools". About 20 guys show up for an "interview" at an apartment complex. Put in teams of two to paint an apartment! It was crazy, at a time of high unemployment. There were guys ripping the plastic off their dollar store brushes and knocking each over other to be first. My brother and I were first done, no one got hired! Complex got painted tho!

Tmrrptr

· #17 · Jan 12, 2008

Wow!

$72 Canadien?

For a Chevrolet???

That's too much. They're just taking advantage that it's a french name.

Think I'll wait 'til I can get a TaTa Nano with my Wallymart credit card for $2,500 bucks.

ProWallGuy

· #18 · Jan 12, 2008

:scooter::scooter::scooter:

Moved to the appropriate forum.

Joewho

· #19 · Jan 12, 2008 (Edited)

vermontpainter said:
Interviewing should perhaps be one of our next threads here. In a nutshell, people are amazingly adroit at telling you what you want to hear in the interview. In our last round of interviews, after initial screening, phone conversations and at least one face to face interview we had our finalists come to our shop. We wheel out a cart with everything a painter might need to paint one door and have them paint one side of one door. Watching how they use the resources available, do the brushwork and how the finished product looks tells us exactly what their professional level is. This way you can accurately determine starting pay.

I've been doing it close to 25 yrs. Still insecure when I work with someone new for the first time. Would I not get hired if I didn't use any floetrol? On just one door? How about if I just dust the door and blow into the corners to make sure nothing is there? What if it appears that I didn't dust well enough, but the door is still dust free? I'm just curious and I always worry that people don't see what I see and vice versa.

.
In reality, you'd have to get a slomo camera to even see my hands.

vermontpainter

· #20 · Jan 12, 2008

Joewho said:
I've been doing it close to 25 yrs. Still insecure when I work with someone new for the first time.

Would I not get hired if I didn't use any floetrol?

If you could get latex to brush out nicely and level without I would be impressed.

On just one door? How about if I just dust the door and blow into the corners to make sure nothing is there? What if it appears that I didn't dust well enough, but the door is still dust free?

Not sure how this is possible. If it is dust free it would appear that you dusted well enough.

I'm just curious and I always worry that people don't see what I see and vice versa. .

Good point. Over time we all develop an eye for detail, some more developed than others.

In reality, you'd have to get a slomo camera to even see my hands.

I've not run into this problem.

I think you are overthinking it! Just paint the damn door!

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