Professional Painting Contractors Forum banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just joined and first post here..

Scenario: I installed mdf paneling, poplar picture frames and a poplar chair rail - all unprimed. Prior to priming, I lightly sanded with 220 then sprayed a very very light coat of kilz2 primer. The tip I used was a 313. The primer was still just slightly tacky after about 2 days which lead to to research the primer which apparently has something like a 25% failure rate. When i ran my finger nail i could actually peel away the primer to the bare wood. Anticipating worst case scenario, i stripped everything and cleaned with a stripper rinse.

Went to SW, spoke with the rep who recommended their multi-purpose latex primer which has a dry touch time of 30 mins and recoat time of 4 hours. Again, lightly sprayed the first coat using 313 tip. A day later, i have the same problem. The primer is slightly tacky and when i go to sand, it doesn't sand to powder; more like goop. There are also portions where i can scrape the primer off to the bare wood. And, the primer is again just ever so slightly tacky to the touch. This goes for the wood, the mdf and the poplar pieces.

Oh, and lastly, house temperature is approximately 70 deg f, and Ive been running a dehumidifier nonstop.

Does any body have any idea on what's going on here? At first, I thought it was a bad product. Now after using SW, it appears something else is going on. Thank you for any help
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
It sounds like you're having adhesion issues.

Scenario 1) Your primer has not had enough time to cure, harden up, and bond to the substrate. This happens to me sometimes, where a primer doesn't pass the scratch test for a day or two but then after 4 or 5 days it does.

Scenario 2) The primers you are using might not be good enough for what you are trying to do and aren't bonding well enough chemically. If needed, sand the substrate to etch in a "toothiness" to better promote a "mechanical" bond between substrate and primer.

Scenario 3) The substrate is uniquely incompatible with the primers you have used thus far. Time to up the ante and use an alkyd oil based primer (coverstain), a shellac primer (real or synthetic, there are various options now), or a specialized water based bonding primer (I recently used Sherwin Williams extreme bond with very impressive results, other options are XIM UMA Bonding Primer Advanced Technologies, or Insl-x Stix Bonding primer).

If odor is an issue or toxic chemicals can't be used on this job I'd suggest trying one of the water based bonding primers first. They may not pass the scratch test right off the bat but should glue down well after a day or two. Good luck and let us know what happens.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,801 Posts
I've used bullseye 123 on miles and miles of poplar trim and never had any of the issues you've mentioned. You've practically got an optimal painting situation there with 70f and a dehumidifier running. I think it's really really weird that the primer still feels slightly tacky the next day, but then again I've never used the primers you've mentioned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
I've used bullseye 123 on miles and miles of poplar trim and never had any of the issues you've mentioned. You've practically got an optimal painting situation there with 70f and a dehumidifier running. I think it's really really weird that the primer still feels slightly tacky the next day, but then again I've never used the primers you've mentioned.
I'm pretty much with Wildbill on this. Bullseye 1-2-3 is my go-to waterborne primer all the time. I think it's wonderful and has a sheen to it which helps if you need to build up to a satin or semigloss. It sticks to most surfaces pretty well too after 3 or 4 days. But I've had it bond poorly to several things over the years, and then I step up to a waterborne bonding primers like I suggested in my first comment.

When all else fails I spray coverstain though. Just get your cartridge mask on and ventilate well. That stuff has taken its toll on me over the years. Customers will never know the effort required to give them a pro, worry free finish. We should all be making $90 an hour for using the toxic stuff!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,839 Posts
Just joined and first post here..

Scenario: I installed mdf paneling, poplar picture frames and a poplar chair rail - all unprimed. Prior to priming, I lightly sanded with 220 then sprayed a very very light coat of kilz2 primer. The tip I used was a 313. The primer was still just slightly tacky after about 2 days which lead to to research the primer which apparently has something like a 25% failure rate. When i ran my finger nail i could actually peel away the primer to the bare wood. Anticipating worst case scenario, i stripped everything and cleaned with a stripper rinse.

Went to SW, spoke with the rep who recommended their multi-purpose latex primer which has a dry touch time of 30 mins and recoat time of 4 hours. Again, lightly sprayed the first coat using 313 tip. A day later, i have the same problem. The primer is slightly tacky and when i go to sand, it doesn't sand to powder; more like goop. There are also portions where i can scrape the primer off to the bare wood. And, the primer is again just ever so slightly tacky to the touch. This goes for the wood, the mdf and the poplar pieces.

Oh, and lastly, house temperature is approximately 70 deg f, and Ive been running a dehumidifier nonstop.

Does any body have any idea on what's going on here? At first, I thought it was a bad product. Now after using SW, it appears something else is going on. Thank you for any help
A 313 tip can throw some serious paint down in a small area very quick, sounds to me it may be over application and thus not curing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
needs more cure time... I would recommend coverstain, or similar oil based primer for the mdf panels. Let it dry for 2 or 3 days.

I have had similar issues with mdf panels, where water based primer with a 30 min dry time took 2 days to dry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Update

First off, thank you to everyone who replied.

I stopped into SW today and spoke with their sales manager who claimed he never heard of the problem with the latex product. He called into corporate and spoke with a technician who recommended that, since mdf may give off 'gases' or oils [or something like that] and poplar may have a lot of tannon, that I need to indeed step up the game to an oil based primer. They recommended the Problock oil base.

I'm going to test a piece tonight and let everyone know the results!

Thank you again for all of the help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
583 Posts
Poplar is pretty much tannin free. Only randomly have I had tannin bleed from poplar and it was probably a real purple green piece with possibly an extra beefy piece of grain or on the rare chance a knot.

Grain raise and fuzziness however is expected with a water borne on polar and mdf.

Honestly in the situation describe you would have benefited from a pigmented shellac or and oil based primer as an initial application to lock down the grain, fuzz and the mdf.

If I had to shoot what you did with a waterborne a quick dry undercoat would have been the go to like SW wall wood or ppg fast dry undercoat.

I like the problock aerosol but never sprayed the problock oil myself. Probably would shoot something like bm217or upon another members recommendation, the SW exterior oil primer. Neither are quick dry.

Sw quick dry oil is like mud. I don't have much experience spraying oil. But man that stuff shouldn't be brushed on trim work out of the tin.

Poplar and mdf don't like water.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,274 Posts
It sounds like you applied wayyyy to much product. It’s also possible that sanding up to 220 closed the pores of the wood and prevented the primer from penetrating into the wood.

When I’m spraying primers on raw wood i’ll start with a very light tack coat followed by a heavy coat about 10 min later.

If you’re looking for a Waterborne primer I’d recommend SW Premium Wall and Wood or BM Advance primer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Painter & Furniture Refinishing
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
I always use a shellac based primer on all wood, no exceptions. It has never let me down! Dries really quickly and letting it dry over night I paint with no issues. Bin is my go to for wood. No doubt, in my mind, it will work as well for MDF.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Update!!

I have no idea what happened here, but here is the end result..

After what felt like 10 years of stripping primer, cleaning, and stripping, I lightly sanded the mdf and poplar trim and prepped for primer.

I sprayed the oil based SW problock product [after serious thinning] with a 313 tip. First coat was super light and i let that dry overnight.. Next day, i threw on a good 2nd coat, cranked the heat up to 75, started up the dehumidifier and walked away. I came back tonight and the primer is rock hard - zero issues.

All i can attribute this to is the mdf and poplar not accepting the latex based primers. For ****s, i bought a small pint on the SW multi purpose primer to "retest" on a scrap piece of mdf and poplar..same result as the previous application. The product just never dried and I was unable to sand at all.

What a horrible ordeal to go through..hopefully this helps someone out in the future!
 

·
Registered
Painter & Furniture Refinishing
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
The future here,

It does indeed help. I’m going to spray my mdf bookshelves with an oil based primer instead of a water based primer.

Thank you kindly.

Good Call, can't go wrong, there!
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
3,466 Posts
I dunno, I sprayed some MDF panels with freshstart latex primer a few weeks back and it worked like a charm. Although I did spray 2 or 3 coats. Dryed and recoated in a couple hours. Hardly raised any wood grain..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I dunno, I sprayed some MDF panels with freshstart latex primer a few weeks back and it worked like a charm. Although I did spray 2 or 3 coats. Dryed and recoated in a couple hours. Hardly raised any wood grain..
The only fresh start primer for wood that I’ve liked is 217
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top