[SteveB]

Hi All,
Got a big cabinet job coming up. Someone had suggested Aqua Lock in a previous thread I had started, so I'm gonna go with that. I don't usually have tannin issues, but just in case, what is everyones "go to" for low odor/flamability for boxes? The last time it happened I primed originally with Extreme Bond. Since it bled through I did it again with the S/W water borne shellac, and it worked out OK, but I'm open to other things. I get a lot of good advice from you all. I will be rolling boxes and spraying doors. Thanks.

 

[monarchski]

Hi All,
Got a big cabinet job coming up. Someone had suggested Aqua Lock in a previous thread I had started, so I'm gonna go with that. I don't usually have tannin issues, but just in case, what is everyones "go to" for low odor/flamability for boxes? The last time it happened I primed originally with Extreme Bond. Since it bled through I did it again with the S/W water borne shellac, and it worked out OK, but I'm open to other things. I get a lot of good advice from you all. I will be rolling boxes and spraying doors. Thanks.

I like Aqua Lock but I would still suggest waiting a day and if you see any bleed from tannin to hit it with a 2nd coat.
Zinsser has a new primer they guarantee to stop bleed in a single coat but I've yet to try it. Here's the video. Introducing Zinsser Stain Killing Primer - YouTube

 

[comtnpaint]

Hi All,
Got a big cabinet job coming up. Someone had suggested Aqua Lock in a previous thread I had started, so I'm gonna go with that. I don't usually have tannin issues, but just in case, what is everyones "go to" for low odor/flamability for boxes? The last time it happened I primed originally with Extreme Bond. Since it bled through I did it again with the S/W water borne shellac, and it worked out OK, but I'm open to other things. I get a lot of good advice from you all. I will be rolling boxes and spraying doors. Thanks.

I've heard good things about Smart Prime's tannin blocking from my painters. A lot of them also use Aqua Lock, because it sands really well.

Zinsser has a new primer they guarantee to stop bleed in a single coat but I've yet to try it. Here's the video. Introducing Zinsser Stain Killing Primer - YouTube

I'm going to have to ask for a sample of this to see how it does. Doesn't look like they have put up a tech data sheet on it yet.

 

[fromthenorthwest]

Smart Prime does work great for tannin blocking, we used it for a couple years. However if you do any power sanding on it there's a good chance you will get some weird stuff happening with micro bubbles/ solvent emtrapment in the top coat. From what I hear renner 083 will block tannins without needing to be catalyzed.

 

[Holland]

Smart Prime does work great for tannin blocking, we used it for a couple years. However if you do any power sanding on it there's a good chance you will get some weird stuff happening with micro bubbles/ solvent emtrapment in the top coat. From what I hear renner 083 will block tannins without needing to be catalyzed.

I wonder if the micro-bubbles isn't a trait of BM paints. I have not had that problem with SW paints. I have been running into the dreaded "micro-bubbles" on the current job I'm doing with Cabinet Coat, but have not had a problem with S-W paints. Not sure what is causing it, have not had it happen before. I am rolling and back brushing, but have been dealing with micro bubbles on some surfaces where it shouldn't be happening.

I like SmartPrime - easy to work with, sands great, and is effective at encapsulating Tannin bleed, but I worry that the high solids content (and therefore lower resin content) makes adhesion less than optimal. Manufacturer recommendation is that full-adhesion is not achieved until full cure.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

I wonder if the micro-bubbles isn't a trait of BM paints. I have not had that problem with SW paints. I have been running into the dreaded "micro-bubbles" on the current job I'm doing with Cabinet Coat, but have not had a problem with S-W paints. Not sure what is causing it, have not had it happen before. I am rolling and back brushing, but have been dealing with micro bubbles on some surfaces where it shouldn't be happening.

I like SmartPrime - easy to work with, sands great, and is effective at encapsulating Tannin bleed, but I worry that the high solids content (and therefore lower resin content) makes adhesion less than optimal. Manufacturer recommendation is that full-adhesion is not achieved until full cure.

I heard that from another painter recently using cabinet coat, microbubbles.

To OP: Aqualock is a decent primer but it doesn't sand well at all so I wouldn't personally use it on any cabinets

I really like the centurion 1107, or equivalent from enviorlak or Renner

 

[finishesbykevyn]

BIN is great if you're just rolling it. Smell dissipates quick and can recoat in 30 mins. Let's be honest, all those primers stink to high heaven. Aqualock sprays really nice in the airless and needs minimal sanding. Adhesion is pretty dang good.

 

[fromthenorthwest]

I only had the issue when spraying over the smart prime. And only when it had been power sanded. In my case it was more of a solvent entrapment thing I think. I referred to it as micro bubbles but that's probably not correct.

I tried Emerald urethane once and I can't for the life of me remember if it had issues too. But I think I did, otherwise I would probably still be using that system.

Brush and roll never had any issues, only when sprayed. But that's my two cents on why I switched from smart prime. Still use it for brushing and rolling trim or even exterior cedar shake, etc.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Holland]

* Cabinet Coat only bubbled on these pieces, but it bubbled every time .

 

[SteveB]

I heard that from another painter recently using cabinet coat, microbubbles.

To OP: Aqualock is a decent primer but it doesn't sand well at all so I wouldn't personally use it on any cabinets

I really like the centurion 1107, or equivalent from enviorlak or Renner

I found a Renner dealer in the Chicago area. Is that the Renner 083 that you like?

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

I found a Renner dealer in the Chicago area. Is that the Renner 083 that you like?

yes the 83 is very good 1k, doesn't have the high mil vertical hang but other than that great primer.

 

[Tlapaints]

BIN is great if you're just rolling it. Smell dissipates quick and can recoat in 30 mins. Let's be honest, all those primers stink to high heaven. Aqualock sprays really nice in the airless and needs minimal sanding. Adhesion is pretty dang good.

Adhesion with bin is second to none, it will stick to glass. Having tried waterborne "stain blockers" for years, I always come back to shellac. As you say, it off gasses quickly, and just plain works. It sticks, it seals, and you never need to worry about tannin bleed, or any other bleed.

 

[Mike2coat]

I tried out Envirolack T9000 a month or so ago it worked great.

 

[John C]

BIN shellac the way to go

 

[Knobbe]

I heard that from another painter recently using cabinet coat, microbubbles.

To OP: Aqualock is a decent primer but it doesn't sand well at all so I wouldn't personally use it on any cabinets

I really like the centurion 1107, or equivalent from enviorlak or Renner

I agree, Aqualock does not sand well at all. My go to process when I'm concerned about tannin bleed is still BIN, Smartprime, finish coat

 

[Boston Paint]

Adhesion with bin is second to none, it will stick to glass. Having tried waterborne "stain blockers" for years, I always come back to shellac. As you say, it off gasses quickly, and just plain works. It sticks, it seals, and you never need to worry about tannin bleed, or any other bleed.

While BIN will stick to anything and has great stain blocking qualities, when used in a high build application, I feel it is a little soft on areas like door and drawer edges. Great sanding sealer/stain blocker, but maybe follow with something built to flex?

I wish someone out there would put up a table form review of all the Italian products now available. I would pay good money to know what does what. It would be less expensive than trying to figure it all out from scratch.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

While BIN will stick to anything and has great stain blocking qualities, when used in a high build application, I feel it is a little soft on areas like door and drawer edges. Great sanding sealer/stain blocker, but maybe follow with something built to flex?

I wish someone out there would put up a table form review of all the Italian products now available. I would pay good money to know what does what. It would be less expensive than trying to figure it all out from scratch.

The centurion 1107 has everything you could want. best primer out there imo, other than it uses an isocyanate catalyst. A close second is Renner

 

[Boston Paint]

The centurion 1107 has everything you could want. best primer out there imo, other than it uses an isocyanate catalyst. A close second is Renner

Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[Holland]

While BIN will stick to anything and has great stain blocking qualities, when used in a high build application, I feel it is a little soft on areas like door and drawer edges. Great sanding sealer/stain blocker, but maybe follow with something built to flex?

I wish someone out there would put up a table form review of all the Italian products now available. I would pay good money to know what does what. It would be less expensive than trying to figure it all out from scratch.

how are you ordering Italian paints?

I can’t imagine shipping paint to my doorstep (while I’m gone) in winter, not to mention the burden on the UPS guy.

 

[Boston Paint]

how are you ordering Italian paints?

I can’t imagine shipping paint to my doorstep (while I’m gone) in winter, not to mention the burden on the UPS guy.

I have a local commercial finishing dealer who carries a variety of products. They have Sayerlac on hand which I use quite frequently. At other vendors within driving distance have Milesi and Ilva. Regardless, color matching can create issues or add a lot of extra time.

There are a lot of products out there and even digging around on the internet, it's hard to know what is best in any particular situation.