I thank God I dont have to rely on my residential business to carry me for the year. I don't think I would be in business very long with all the hacks out there that have no idea how to price a job. For example last year I won a bid on a nice 4500sq.ft colonial that with the pool house and fencing was just shy of 15k. College Pro gave an estimate of $3600.00. This year I have lost 4 jobs to Certa Pro because I was under bid by alomst 50%. In one case the H.O. told me the guy from CP called him a week later and knocked $1500.00 off the price to schedule right away! I can understand getting chopped up by Bill and Ted's painting on a occasional job but when a large franchise comes in at 50% less than the competition it has to raise a red flag. And yes I am always working on selling jobs but when a competitor comes in so low in this economy how do you compete?
Price Slashers
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I have to disagree about pricing with certa-pro ,the reason why i say it is last year i met an owner of a franchise at the paint store he asked me if i was interested in sub-contracting...I was interested to see what he would offer and went to see a couple of his jobs, and was in shock with some of his pricing(it being very high)... example of 1 exterior raised ranch maybe 2,600sq ft., cedar shake, gave me the job scope spot prime and 1 finish coat, and if necessary 2nd coat @ an additional cost, plus trim...certa-pro price 12,600 plus additional 3,000 for 2nd coat...estimators all have pc notebooks w/ all production rates set, and told me he subs a ton of work out, which leads me to believe that many other certa-pro franchises are doing the same thus needing to charge @ a premium not a discount to make money....by t he way my % of that job would have been about 45% without materials!!
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well maybe when they disappear next spring because all their jobs are failing maybe you can talk to their insurance company and get all the warranty work at full price :thumbup:
maybe that is the future of for the rest of us, fixing all the jobs the lowballing hack put out, though thats probably more trouble than its worth.
maybe that is the future of for the rest of us, fixing all the jobs the lowballing hack put out, though thats probably more trouble than its worth.
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yah i suppose dincao, I saw the local college pro car at my SW store the other day, not even a station wagon, just a run down toyota sedan, the large woman that was in there looked like she had never slung a brush or climbed a ladder either. but hey they must be doing something right cause they are still around
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277 Posts
Many businesses that do lousy work succeed because they have fantastic marketing. To many consumers, it doesn't matter if you can actually do the job correctly, you just have to convince them that you can do the job good enough for the right price. (This is NOT my philosophy, by the way)
On a side note, I got a letter from CP the other day asking me to sit down with an estimator so I can get my house on the schedule.....gee, my steel siding and aluminum trim could stand a fresh coat....
On a side note, I got a letter from CP the other day asking me to sit down with an estimator so I can get my house on the schedule.....gee, my steel siding and aluminum trim could stand a fresh coat....
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2,451 Posts
Well, I haven't come up with good answer on that oneNEPS.US said:
Just that you can't compete on price
If you're going to go broke, it's much easier and quicker to do it on the couch watching TV and drinking beer rather than working your tail off
I have the same issue out here, but rather than a College/Certa undercut, it's "The Brazilians"
I'm not trying to start any immigration or political rants, it's just a fact out here
It's just what you hear out hear just before you lose a job to an underbidder
"I can get some Brazilians to do it for half"
"How much?...The Brazilians would do it for..."
"Why should I hire you?...The Brazilians would do it for half that"
"Uhhh...thanks but I'm going to get some Brazilians to do it for half"
I've been painting interiors and had Brazilians knocking on the door
"I paint! I paint!...Cheap cheap!"
I get approached in the Contractor Supply (while wearing my whites) "You paint? Need painter? I paint!..."
Granted, some Brazilian painters out here are respectable, responsible, legal, craftsman
But the vast majority are none of those
So far, the best I could come up with is NOT to compete with them
I don't consider them my competition
I've said flat out (when The Brazilians came up) I don't intend to be the cheapest, I intend to be the guy that gets it done, and gets it done right
I try and separate myself from the Labor Monkey With A Brush companies as much as possible
It's an on-going process though
recently I bid the interior of a new construction 4500 sq/ft home. My bid was 18K+.
The guy that got the bid did it for $5000.
The guy that got the bid did it for $5000.
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Those franchises are still independently run
Some of those managers are better than others
The "I wanna be my own boss" and "I'll compete by price" types will fail, and fall by the wayside...eventually (usually owing Certa/College a boatload of money)
The "I'm and entrepreneur and actually learned how to run a business" types may succeed and remain
Din.... CP is a franchise, the owners pay a fee for leads and marketing tools. I'm sure they have some responsibility to pricing but what I'm still running into around here is alot of guys that have had little to no work since Jan 1 and will do anything to get work. And this must include some of the franchises in MY area too. In years past I had 20-30 guys running by now. Now I have 5 and we're just cruizing along.
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How about the people who have the unemployed brother in law? I put a bid on doing a stripping job. These people wanted their kitchen stripped, skimmed, primed, and painted. I gave a bid of 2400.00, with that, they wanted to get other bids. After about a week 1/2 they call telling me that my bid was in the mix with the others but, they were gonna go with "my husbands brother who is out of work." Asked if he was a painter, she said he worked as a fork lift driver in a warehouse.
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There is going to be alot of confusion for the consumer here for a little while with all the low prices flying around. The perception will be that when the economy is good we are all fat and hosing people, and with the economy slow, we should lower our prices to compete with idiots. I dont know about everyone else, but not one of my costs has gone down lately.
The trick for us, is at whatever size is feasible to operate right now, be as booked and profitable as possible. My goal continues to be to grow during this time. So far so good.
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TH you should see if you can get after pics of that kitchen to use as "why to hire a pro painter".
You are right on Scott, if anything costs have gone up with the increase in oil prices and inflation and what not. I think the statement about operating at the right size for how much work you can get is going to be key.
You are right on Scott, if anything costs have gone up with the increase in oil prices and inflation and what not. I think the statement about operating at the right size for how much work you can get is going to be key.
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594 Posts
Yes, I agree with the marketing response, great marketing can sell a crappy product. If you don't agree, then explain BEHR Paint.
Lately I've seen allot of College painter signs in my area, they are being put up by girl in a small escort. I seen her one day, she have a vinyl magnet sign on her car. The funny thing is, the houses that have the signs are located in the entrance of a busy residential neighborhood. And none of the houses have had any painting done inside or out. I think she is paying them to place in their yard, infact I'm sure of it.
I was recently outbid by TEACHERS that paint. or "T.T.P" I drove by the house last week a few times, and say a 15 year old kid there by himself scraping away. I was wondering how long he has been teaching...lol
My business is 90% residential. 80% referrals and I'm slammed so I'm being outbid and still getting the work. But I've stepped up the level of advertising this year... 5 ten foot banners along main st. killer lawn signs and a t-shirt thing thats just incredible, infact working so well, I'm not even going to mention it here. sorry.
Lately I've seen allot of College painter signs in my area, they are being put up by girl in a small escort. I seen her one day, she have a vinyl magnet sign on her car. The funny thing is, the houses that have the signs are located in the entrance of a busy residential neighborhood. And none of the houses have had any painting done inside or out. I think she is paying them to place in their yard, infact I'm sure of it.
I was recently outbid by TEACHERS that paint. or "T.T.P" I drove by the house last week a few times, and say a 15 year old kid there by himself scraping away. I was wondering how long he has been teaching...lol
My business is 90% residential. 80% referrals and I'm slammed so I'm being outbid and still getting the work. But I've stepped up the level of advertising this year... 5 ten foot banners along main st. killer lawn signs and a t-shirt thing thats just incredible, infact working so well, I'm not even going to mention it here. sorry.
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Kelly
We havent heard from you in a while, assumed you were slammed. You've really ramped up the marketing...thats great! Any luck finding more good help or are you running yourself to a premature death?
By the way, I am so intrigued by your t shirt idea that I am willing to unveil my t shirt secret weapon: On pressure washing days, hot chicks in company t shirts working in under the spray area all day. I doubt you can top that. :yes:
Sweet ! Boobies and chemical burns!:thumbsup:
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Like all surfaces in the area, they have to be pre and post rinsed.
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Do you need a bikini wax technician? :whistling2:
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