[capitalcity painting]

I completely understand what your saying, I'm asking why guys want to worry about adding that stuff in for every estimate. Not saying that is what you meant but I have talked to people that say ok I figure this then that then my insurance then this and that. Why not figure all that up and break it down to how much you need to make for the month, then the week, then the day, then you'll have the hour thus your hourly wage.

 

[Brian]

Why not figure all that up and break it down to how much you need to make for the month, then the week, then the day, then you'll have the hour thus your hourly wage.

That is what I am saying. If you work 2,000 hours a year and have an expense that costs you $2,000 a year, then you need to add $1 to your labor cost for each hour you work to recover that cost. Apply that to all of your costs, your wage, and your profit, and you have your hourly rate.

Brian Phillips

 

[4ThGeneration]

Here is an example of room by room pricing I give. Its a price, but I have a point.

12x12 room with 8 foot ceilings
walls only
1 color
Regal Matte Used
Take before photo
Move furniture to center and cover with poly plastic
Cover floors with rubber backed drops
Remove electrical plates
Patch walls
Scuff sand all walls
Dust walls and vacuum up debris
Apply tape along base line to wall.
Apply Regal Matte, 2 coats brush and roll
Caulk bead along all trim to walls and re caulk window frame to return
Have homeowner do a walk through
Remove all plastic and drops
Put plates back on
Put furniture back in place
Take after photo

Time elapsed:2 Hours

Price:$550

Now, I am new to the PA area, so I am building my rep now. The thing is I can go cheap and land a lot of work, but my foundation will scream CHEAP!!! Then trying to get what I need after I am established with those customers and their referrals will be very tough because they already have the we give the best quality for cheap. I learned that lesson once before and cut both families and their contacts out after 1 year.

Not everyone can get this price in bad markets, but what I mean is that at the same time IN BAD MARKETS there are people still paying top dollar.

My Uncle got either $1200 or $800 for painting a ceiling in a upscale area in Ponte Vedra Country club back in Fl. I asked how he could charge so much because it was only 10 foot ceilings that took 1 gallon on a 1 coat application and his answer was "Because I can" I saw it as cocky, but now it speaks volumes...


O.K., now back to look for Georgia Bulldog fans to pick on. I am in Florida now for a visit, so since I am a Gator...gotta run dem dawgs off.

 

[salestrainer]

4th generation that looks like a good price. I just won a bid on a similar sized bedroom w small vaulted ceiling, however i am also doing small master bath, and patching several small holes, it's first repaint on 8 year old home. I am charging $740.00, after seeing your post, I think I should have priced higher, I am new to the biz in the midwest and not nearly as fast as you I''m sure. I am still in the process of gauging my production time. One question, you say you caulk after the paint, it seems like many caulk as part of the pre-paint prep. Just curious what the advantages and disadvantages to doing it both ways. Thanks for your time to consider this post.

 

[SterlingPainting]

I find that bidding jobs based on size is a bit of a bell curve:

small jobs require a higher bid because of the ratio of transportation time, etc to actual labor.

Very large Jobs also require a high bid because of associated risk taking on a large contract.

Medium sized jobs I believe are the best value for the client, because of low to medium risk and ratio of transportation time, books, etc to actual labor.

When I bid very large jobs I purposefully add an extra 10-20 percent on top as a "emergency" padding. Incase some onforseen thing happens I won't be bankrupted by a single job. I would rather not get a large job then end up doing it for nothing, or worse actually paying for it!

Just my 2 cents.

 

[plainpainter]

Here is an example of room by room pricing I give. Its a price, but I have a point.

12x12 room with 8 foot ceilings
walls only
1 color
Regal Matte Used
Take before photo
Move furniture to center and cover with poly plastic
Cover floors with rubber backed drops
Remove electrical plates
Patch walls
Scuff sand all walls
Dust walls and vacuum up debris
Apply tape along base line to wall.
Apply Regal Matte, 2 coats brush and roll
Caulk bead along all trim to walls and re caulk window frame to return
Have homeowner do a walk through
Remove all plastic and drops
Put plates back on
Put furniture back in place
Take after photo

Time elapsed:2 Hours

Price:$550

Now, I am new to the PA area, so I am building my rep now. The thing is I can go cheap and land a lot of work, but my foundation will scream CHEAP!!! Then trying to get what I need after I am established with those customers and their referrals will be very tough because they already have the we give the best quality for cheap. I learned that lesson once before and cut both families and their contacts out after 1 year.

Not everyone can get this price in bad markets, but what I mean is that at the same time IN BAD MARKETS there are people still paying top dollar.

My Uncle got either $1200 or $800 for painting a ceiling in a upscale area in Ponte Vedra Country club back in Fl. I asked how he could charge so much because it was only 10 foot ceilings that took 1 gallon on a 1 coat application and his answer was "Because I can" I saw it as cocky, but now it speaks volumes...


O.K., now back to look for Georgia Bulldog fans to pick on. I am in Florida now for a visit, so since I am a Gator...gotta run dem dawgs off.

Jimmy first of all - I doubt anyone could get that much money for that work - and you are high as a kite if you think you can do all that in 2 hours.

 

[gturner]

Looking For Pricing Guide

Does anyone here have a good pricing guideline for commercial work, I usually do high end residential , but because of the slow economy , I need at look at other options, currently i am bidding a 14,000 sq foot new const. office building , walls only , I don't want to low ball it, and i want to be competitive. It there a floor sq ft formula i can apply?
thanks

 

[capitalcity painting]

Does anyone here have a good pricing guideline for commercial work, I usually do high end residential , but because of the slow economy , I need at look at other options, currently i am bidding a 14,000 sq foot new const. office building , walls only , I don't want to low ball it, and i want to be competitive. It there a floor sq ft formula i can apply?
thanks

The office space should not be much different then the residential you are doing and you should be able to apply the same numbers. Now run before the mob gets here.

 

[NEPS.US]

Commercial means multiple your normal rate by 3. Those guys are loaded.:yes:

 

[Dave Mac]

Commercial means multiple your normal rate by 3. Those guys are loaded.:yes:

Around here we go with half the normal rate and make it up in volume:jester:

 

[michfan]

Around here we go with half the normal rate and make it up in volume:jester:

I thought the commercial equation was as follows:

Half the "normal rate" x .5 - the floor square footage + the number of employees you have x the % you want to lose your butt if you don't know what your doing?

At least, that's what I was told :blink:

 

[gturner]

i thought it was asking too much

for guidance on sq ft pricing,

I work in the Aspen area and it's not the real world here ,

My first paint job was 5 years ago , previously and currently I am either a project manager and work for myself , I was repairing some decks on a house and the homeowner started asking me about re-staining their home, and if i know of any good painters , well; after beating down many of the crack head drunken asswipe painters on various past projects here in the valley , I turned to one of my employees... Pedro, I ask" do you know of any painters " he replyed " Si Mr T ... how many do you want ". YOu see my client was not happy with several bids they had gotten , to stain the exterior and re-paint the trim , the 5 bids they had got were all between 70 and 92 thousand dollars . I gave them a price of 56K , 4 weeks later i was finished, had less than 24k total invested. Also last year did a county building , exterior stain again , i bid 42K , next lowest bid was over 50K , 2 weeks laster and less than 7k total invested i was finished. Residental is usually by the sq foot , and averages 12 or so, so a 5000 sq foot house is in the 60K range.
Now these jobs have slowed to a stop, so i have to enter the real world, and bidding commercial is a different horse for me. But, i will handle it , so thanks for the smart ass responses

 

[Vincent]

Pricing

Hi
I am very new to this site and and have also just recently tried to start up my own painting business .Although I still have alot to learn, I have painted a good few homes in the last 2 years and have never had a complaint. I think my work is neat and well prepared.
Lately ,I have tried to step up my marketing strategy because I have hardly had any work here in Savannah and all I have been faced with are some hacks who are advertising to paint a room with 2 coats including paint for 75 dollars ! How in the hell is anybody supposed to make a living off that ? I have lost 5 bids already in the last few weeks to locals around here in Savannah who are advertising these prices. Maybe its also my fault for advertising on craigslist and expecting to get high paying jobs when craigslist is for bargain hunters.
I think my pricing has been more than reasonable but when other painters around here are charging 75 bucks per room then I think something is wrong or they are just drunks and punks who dont care about the quality of their work.
Any advice ?

 

[TJ Paint]

Here is an example of room by room pricing I give. Its a price, but I have a point.

12x12 room with 8 foot ceilings
walls only
1 color
Regal Matte Used
Take before photo
Move furniture to center and cover with poly plastic
Cover floors with rubber backed drops
Remove electrical plates
Patch walls
Scuff sand all walls
Dust walls and vacuum up debris
Apply tape along base line to wall.
Apply Regal Matte, 2 coats brush and roll
Caulk bead along all trim to walls and re caulk window frame to return
Have homeowner do a walk through
Remove all plastic and drops
Put plates back on
Put furniture back in place
Take after photo

Time elapsed:2 Hours

Price:$550

yeah so, do you count the time it takes for the first coat to dry? Going by manufacturer recoat time alone, you couldn't do this in two hours. This don't add up.

 

[ImAPainter]

Estimating on jobs

Has anyone tried Benjamin Moore's free Job Cost Estimator tool? They have it on their website and it's supposed to take alot of the headaches out of estimating on jobs to make sure we're making a fair profit on each job. Haven't tried it myself yet but wanted to see if it's helped out anyone else.

 

[PatsPainting]

Has anyone tried Benjamin Moore's free Job Cost Estimator tool? They have it on their website and it's supposed to take alot of the headaches out of estimating on jobs to make sure we're making a fair profit on each job. Haven't tried it myself yet but wanted to see if it's helped out anyone else.

I'm pretty sure there are a few here that have used it and liked it. I just can't remember who at this moment. Why not download it and give it a shot. It's free

Pat

 

[Ultimate]

Copy paste from an email

There are many ways to arrive at your selling price. The best way to calculate the selling price is to allocate all of the company's fixed overhead directly to the field labor selling price. This method is both easy and accurate.
1) The first thing that needs to be done in the process of calculating selling price is to get your profit and loss statement less payroll expenses. Fixed overhead is the figure that you give to your accountant at tax time. These are all costs not directly relating to any particular job.


2) In order to see the relationship between future overhead and future job labor, you must forecast and allow for future labor payroll.


A) For an existing company, all you have to do is to look at the past year's payroll expense. So by using the average of the last several years' payroll, you can budget that for this year's payroll.
B) A new paint company that is just staring out will have to do some guessing. If you plan on working in the field with a helper, then you can estimate your future labor expense.

Once we arrive at these two figures, fixed overhead and field labor, we can establish a relationship between the two. So divide the labor cost into the fixed overhead cost and you get the percentage of your fixed overhead that needs to be added to each dollar of job labor when estimating jobs.
Many contractors do not bother with fixed overhead costs or use some variation. And just take it off the top at the end of year. However overhead is best recovered through the function of your selling price.
Do you want to know more about calculating your selling price?

 

[Fineline]

Your right, and in fact that is what others do too. You, presumably, have already done what they are saying. IE, getting it down to an hourly rate that already includes wages, overhead, and profit. Nothing wrong with that. I think you or the others did not understand each other. Most include wage, oh, and profit in an "hourly rate".

 

[HL Estimator (Gabe)]

Estimating by the numbers

Brian has done a really good job of extrapolating what paint estimating (or any estimating for that matter ). Fact is there is part science, part art when it comes to proper estimating. Whenever I start with a client, I have a long conversation about what their labor force run... That's the real hard part of figuring out numbers. Figuring out the labor production rate of each painting item..is part of the art. I usually go real time with those items. I have clients look at their existing projects; say they are working on a residential job, 2500 sf of contact area (walls and ceilings), 4 doors and 125 ft of baseboard (1 coat of primer, 2 coats of finish), next they figure out what they paid out in payroll for that job, add all workman's comp and payroll taxes and you get the total labor costs. You play around with the numbers a little and you come up with unit prices you can transfer (more or less) to any project around. Material when paint is concerned is less difficult because all paint products come with a coverage area; you take the total coverage area, divide it from the coverage area, multiply the number of coats, and you got your gallons and therefore your material costs.. Add for incidentals like equipment rentals, brushes, etc, and you got your direct costs...

Once you have direct costs, the art of the estimate begins... Market value and how it cramps into overhead and profit... YOU BASICALLY START PLAYING THE PRICE IS RIGHT... but once you have your costs. You have to make the determination as to how much money you can stand to make on a given project.... Without Going Over.

That's my two cents on estimating.

 

[ilovemedia]

I think a lot of factors about estimating also depend on your business. I also feel like market value and your local competitors should also take a part in the estimation calculations. You don’t want to sell yourself, but you do want to stay competitive.