I mostly use Sherwin Williams PVA primer for new drywall and texture. Usually spray and backroll but could always cut and roll. It does a real good job of filling all those new texture micro holes. Also does a real good job softening the look of the texture, makes it look more natural.

Kilz water base is also a great alternative that i've used on new texture on a previously painted wall.

 

I've had excellent results with Zinsser Bulls Eye 1,2,3 on orange peel and level 4 drywall. It does a great job of sealing the drywall and the sheen is close to an eggshell when it dries.

If you're dealing with high ceilings or you want as much open time as possible I'd use Zinsser Gardz. It's the best at sealing the drywall, but it's a little messy to work with because it's so thin.


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Ppg 6-4900

 

Is that the Zero VOC version of PPG 6-2?

 

Depends. Are you spraying it or just rolling it? I switch primers based on application methods also.

 

Rolling it on

 

Gardz for me

My favorite so far is 2 coats of Gardz, especially when top coating with eggshell or higher sheen. At some point I would be curious to try Gardz on new drywall BEFORE taping and mudding is done to see if the finish is any better.

If you have never painted over 2 coats of Gardz on new drywall you should try it out before thinking that its a waste of time. And as far as its being sloppy to use, once you get the hang of rolling it you shouldn't have any problems. The first coat takes time as it is soaking into the drywall. The 2nd coat is much faster and is done to even out the sheen to prevent flashing. Directions are right there on the can.

futtyos

 

My favorite so far is 2 coats of Gardz, especially when top coating with eggshell or higher sheen. At some point I would be curious to try Gardz on new drywall BEFORE taping and mudding is done to see if the finish is any better.





If you have never painted over 2 coats of Gardz on new drywall you should try it out before thinking that its a waste of time. And as far as its being sloppy to use, once you get the hang of rolling it you shouldn't have any problems. The first coat takes time as it is soaking into the drywall. The 2nd coat is much faster and is done to even out the sheen to prevent flashing. Directions are right there on the can.





futtyos

That sounds like an interesting method.

 

2 coats of Gards seems like over kill..

 

I agree, one full coat is all I have ever used. Hint, throw in some 123 to give it some color to see what your doing.

 

Why is Gardz so hard to find? Menard's is the only place I've ever been able to find it and that's an 80 mile round trip for me...........

I'll say, I'm always looking for the BEST drywall priming procedure.......anything to make those top coats pop.

 

You can overkill a primer coat and be screwed on toouch ups. PVA primer is always best.

 

Please explain both of these comments, especially pva being the best. I will make the popcorn for everyone

 

I lean towards Zinsser 123, but still think PVA sealer is a best practice until the industry standards say otherwise.

I do think the Zinsser Drywall Primer is pretty good, but will require two coats of any finish with a sheen.

 

I hate popcorn. Just saying.

 

Regarding the use of PVA primer versus 1,2,3, Guardz, other primers, or no primer at all, does anyone remember the name of the thread where this was discussed in detail? I think it was late last year. I remember Aura being mentioned as a solid two coat system over bare drywall. I know I mentioned a particular job where I had problems because I used PVA instead of Bullsye, my preferred primer for this application. I know Pacman commented. I would like to revisit that thread, and it might be beneficial to others, or at least entertaining!

 

This isn't the thread I was thinking about, but it has some opinions from respected members.

http://www.painttalk.com/f2/drywall-primers-33818/

 

I think painters confuse plaster with drywall. I have used high quality primers for drywall vrs a PVA primer. I get better results from a PVA on fresh drywall. I would not use a PVA primer on patch work. PVA primers are meant for new construction or full remodels with new rock. If you have success with Bullseye then stick with what is working for you. I prefer PVA when painting fresh rock and mud.

 

PVA is crap. It may equal the porosity of new drywall, but it doesn't seal worth crap. If you were to prime 1/2 a wall with 1,2,3 or Gardz and the other 1/2 PVA the paint will stay wet for much longer on the portion that was primed with 1,2,3 or Gardz. This is because those products have sealed the drywall, whereas PVA doesn't seal well.

At the end of the day your production rates for top coats will also be faster with 1,2,3 or Gardz.


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Based upon my experience, I agree with what you just posted. I find that PVA doesn't do a good job sealing drywall, especially when a heavy knockdown texture was applied. I've had no issues when priming with 1 2 3. Based upon what I've read, I'm pretty certain Guardz would be a joy to use as a primer as it would seal better than anything else.

 

I disagree! I am sure those primers will preform. However I believe it is overkill using those primers. A good PVA primer coat is sufficient.

 

Regardless of how and why a preferred primer appears to seal better than PVA over bare drywall/level five joint compound finish, painters continue to miss the point that PVA, or Poly vinyl acetate as Jerr points out, has the same resin properties as joint compound and therefore, is compatible in terms of ph.

 

I use PPG 6-2. No troubles.

I've also used PPG SealGrip, but it is way overkill for new DW.

SW Masterhide is the primer of choice on NC in these parts. Doubles as the ceiling paint.

 

In my experience, damn near anything will work as long as you get the dust off. That is the number one issue you'll find.

Damp mop the dust and anything will work. Super-lightweight compounds have complicated this in this day and age. They are so fragile, if you look at them cross-wise, you'll have some problems.

 

ParamountPaint, you mention a very interesting thing about new drywall, dust. I do not say that getting the majority of the dust off new drywall is a bad thing and I do that myself, but the really neat thing about Gardz (and I imagine the same for Draw-Tite and a couple of other sealers) is that it doesn't just seal the surface. It soaks through any dust remaining and goes into the drywall and saturates it because it is thin enough to do so. It is a sealer, plain and simple, no pigment to thicken it up. The dust on the surface literally becomes a part of the surface.

I would ask anyone here if they know of a better product to both seal a surface AND make dust a part of the surface so that a tape test will not even be affected by dust. I have heard that Draw-Tite is thicker than Gardz, so in this respect it might not be a good at binding the dust into the wall.

I will repeat my initial experience with Gardz. I used to strip and wax (acrylic finish) floors. The acrylic finish was milky white, smelled of banana oil and was thinner than paint. Early on in my floor refinishing days I stripped an old floor, then started applying acrylic floor finish. One coat, two coats, three coats - it wasn't covering, it was flashing. I went to my janitorial supply house and asked for help. I was told that on an old, porous floor, I needed to put down a sealer first, then the top coats would shine like the sun. I did this with the job I was having problems with and, voila! The top coats did not soak into the floor, but shined it up going over the top of the sealer.

DeArch has said here that Scotch Paint in CA took a concrete sealer and reformulated (did they, or did they just use it straight up) it for use on torn and damaged drywall, usually after stripping wallpaper. Zinsser wanted to buy the rights to Draw-Tite, but Scotch wouldn't sell, so Zinsser made their own version, Gardz.

When I first used Gardz I looked at it and thought "this looks like acrylic floor sealer." When I smelled it, I thought "this smells like acrylic floor sealer." When I used it and saw it's viscosity, I thought "this has a similar viscosity as acrylic floor sealer."

To be fair, I have not used PVA since I misused it back ion the early 80's and had to strip it off what I was doing. PVA may very well work in the manner for which it was intended for, but I would be very surprised if it could solidify surface dust into the wall or ceiling like Gardz does, then provide a moisture barrier that lets the water in the paint wick off into the room instead of being sucked up into the surface being painted such that when you finish the wall or ceiling you started to roll, the starting point would still be wet and you would not be struggling to get roller lines smoothed out before the water in the paint gets sucked into the surface and you are left with sanding them later and recoating.

As far as super-lightweight compounds go, the GC I am currently working for uses a USG blue top that dries yellow. I can practically sand it with my eyes. I can certainly sand it with my bare hand. I like to use Gardz on this so it hardens it so it doesn't dent easily.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you haven't used Gardz for sealing drywall, you should treat yourself to the experience. You may come away feeling that it is not necessary for your line of work, but until you try it, you will not know how it works.

I guarantee that if you use 2 coats of Gardz on new drywall, you will have the best experience in putting the finish coats onto your walls or ceilings.

I have to go now. They are telling us that lights are off in 10 minutes.

futtyos

 

I used SW Lexon with SW Emerald on Exterior. Very happy with it.

If you are very happy with it, why bother questioning?

Thinking of going to BM Aura for interior paint but not sure on primer. Can anyone recommend what to use for Primer and why? Thank you

Don't think, do, then figure out what is working, what is not, yet primers all about the same, they prime. They are more rosin based, which makes better bound. What is the worry about... just pick and prime.

 

A prep coat will do the same.

 

What do you mean by prep coat?

I like PVA for the adhesion insurance it provides. Being able to be confident in a good bond even if you maybe didn't get %100 of the surface dust off is certainly a plus.

I have been disappointed with PVA for other reasons though. It doesn't seal as well as other all purpose primers like 123 do, and it can have a tendency to flash.

I've told this story before, but a few years back I did a whole new house with SW PVA and low luster Cashmere finish coat. After a full prime sprayed and back rolled the first coat of finish was flashing horribly. You could see every seam and nail. Even a second coat wouldn't stop the flash. I posted pics at the time, they're buried in the threads somewhere.

Got the rep and manager out to take a look, and he basically just said "well, that happens with PVA sometimes. Certain kinds of drywall mud just make it flash". They competed me the material to re-prime it, but having to do an extra coat was obviously a PITA.

That experience as well as reading about similar experiences others have had has shied me away from PVA.

I have to agree with others that Gardz is hard to beat. Nothing I've ever used even comes close to sealing the wall as well as it does.


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I think it really all comes down to what setting you're using it for.

Run of the mill NC track homes getting cheap chit flat as a finish, PVA all day long. I think we'd all agree gardz would be overkill. In fact if that type of work was priced with gardz you'd never get it because I'll make you too expensive.

For repaints or remodeling where the walls already have a satin type finish I'm spot priming with something like 1-2-3.

Gardz I'd consider for a custom high-end NC house getting a finish coated with good quality paint. The additional cost isn't a problem in that setting and it is by far the best drywall sealer. I'd also use gardz on a repaint that requires a full prime and is getting a satin type finish. I've tried using it for spot priming and that was a big mistake. It sealed the wall to good causing those spots to stay wet longer than everything else which resulted in flashing in certain lights.

Any who to each there own. That's what works for me, but at the end of the day if the job looks good, your customer is happy, and you get paid it's all good.

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At $43.57 per gallon I personally might find Gardz a tricky sell for a whole home, especially if we're going to have to do two coats. I can't say that I have had any bad experiences using PVA even when top coating with Opulence (Cashmere). I would think it would be a good upgrade for walls with critical lighting or those awful ceilings I posted in another thread a few weeks back. Like everything else, it has its place.


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Great point Murphy!

 

Of course if cost is the main factor, it's Really hard to beat PVA. I see it on sale every now and then for less than $60 a five.


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I can get 123 for around 16 dollars a gallon. Guardz is in the mid 40's.

 

HD has some merits, and the availability and rather inexpensive pricing on Zinsser products is one of them.

 

That's one of the reasons I used to get 123 at HD, but over the years their pricing on it just kept going up. At this point they're actually selling it for more than what I can get it for at my local paint shop. $40/gal.

Never seen it in 2gal buckets before. That'd be handy.