https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.zinsser-gardz-primer-sealer--36l.1000833047.html

FYI 3.6L is about one gallon


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What does "Best primer for drywall" mean?

I have read and re-read most of the comments here about what people think is the "best" drywall primer out there and I would have to ask the following:

Is this question regarding the best primer in a technical sense or in a pragmatic and practical sense?

I, as well as others here, have been unable to convince Jerr that Gardz is better than PVA. Jerr may have been using a particular brand of PVA for a lot of NC and has had great success with it. I would imagine that PVA is certainly cheaper than Gardz (especially if I lived in Canada or Florida!) and can do most of what it is used for doing, to get a paint job done fast and efficiently enough to make the job worth doing or to remain among the competition as far as bids go.

There is no doubt that using Gardz is more costly and time consuming than using PVA, at least if nothing goes wrong with the PVA - that it makes the surfaces uniform and takes the top coats of paint adequately and no flashing occurs. If that has been one's experience using PVA, then why switch?

I personally have not used PVA for new drywall work. As I mentioned before, on one of my first paint jobs, I scraped paint off the top half of bathroom walls (bottom was tiled) in a building that was built at the end of the 19th century, so it was plaster. I thought I would get PVA and paint over it. The PVA started peeling almost immediately. I had to remove every square inch of it and have never used PVA again. Maybe not a good reason as I used it over a surface it was not intended to be used on, but there it is.

I have seen people here mentioning Gardz and 123 together as if they were comparable. In doing new remodeling work painting for a contractor in hi rise in Chicago, I was able to get him to go from Kilz 2 on new drywall and skim coated plaster to using 123, and I am happy about that, but even the 123 does not pass the tape test. He put yellow frog tape on my paint-over-123-job next to his shower tile work to grout or some such thing, and when the frog tape came off, so did the paint and 123. While I have not done the tape test with Gardz, I have to think that if a 1st coat of Gardz had been applied, at least on areas that might end up being taped, that this would not have happened. If the area had been Gardzed, then extra time would not have to be taken to correct this problem.

If I was bidding a job on NC drywall along with a number of others and did not use the most cost effective method for my bid, I might not get the work.

There are a lot of variables as far as what the "best drywall primer" is. From just a technical sense, the best new drywall primer I have used is not a primer, it is a sealer, 2 coats of Gardz. I cannot personally say that this works better than PVA, but, based on many comments from others here who have had experience using both, I will wait for the job where PVA is spec'd and I am just working by the hour.

What I like about Gardz on new drywall is that you only get one opportunity to put something on the drywall first. Everything else that goes on is going over what is put on first. I would be very surprised if there was any primer that soaks into new drywall and whatever dust is still on it, and solidifies everything down to the gypsum and possibly into that as well.

Using Gardz for a whole job may not be cost effective, but not using it on ceilings or walls that will get direct light that shows every little imperfection might be a mistake. That may be only 1 or 2 ceilings and maybe 1 to 3 walls in a whole house, but it just might save your f_nny.

Is Gardz (or any other material) the best primer for drywall? I guess it depends on why the question is being asked.

futtyos

 

Best drywall primer for what purpose?



czego82, I take it that you are the OP of this poll. Am I correct? If so, would you say that your question regarding what the best primer for drywall is has to do with which primer will make the drywall smoothest?

Or better yet, is your question really "how do I even the texture out on new drywall between the paper on the drywall and the mud?"

If this is actually the case, wouldn't we be talking about the level of finish on the wall and not what primer is best?

Could you clarify and restate your problem and what you are trying to accomplish. It sounds to me like you may be getting a lot of answers to a wrong or uncertainly understood (at least by me) question.

For example, if your concern is about evening the texture between the paper and the mud, why don't you skim coat the paper with the same mud, sand everything, then whatever you put on top will be going over all mud? Or are you trying to find a primer that will help you avoid doing a skim coat?

As I have said, could you be a little more clear on just what you are trying to accomplish?

futtyos

 

I'm not going to jump into the mix with PVA and what primer is good, better, best.

But I will say this, since I just scanned the thread and didn't see it come up:

When spraying NC (new construction), we almost exclusively use Hi-Bild or Hi-Build primer from Sherwin. It doesn't roll good at all and I wouldn't even want to try and roll it if I had to. But spraying...nothing like it. Thick stuff, meant to cover up drywall sanding scratches, level things out some, etc. Does a great job and when we're done most people think it's the paint, but it isn't.

For rolling applications I'd say PVA or whatever will kill porosity. If it's a small wall or two, I like to use the multi-purpose primer (since we carry it around all the time and it's on hand). Same with patches, hit with multi, then top coat or 2 coat, depending on the situation, done.

Anyway, just wanted to throw the Hi-Build out there, since it's our go-to product when doing NC.

 

When spraying NC (new construction), we almost exclusively use Hi-Bild or Hi-Build primer from Sherwin. It doesn't roll good at all and I wouldn't even want to try and roll it if I had to. But spraying...nothing like it. Thick stuff, meant to cover up drywall sanding scratches, level things out some, etc. Does a great job and when we're done most people think it's the paint, but it isn't.

For rolling applications I'd say PVA or whatever will kill porosity. If it's a small wall or two, I like to use the multi-purpose primer (since we carry it around all the time and it's on hand). Same with patches, hit with multi, then top coat or 2 coat, depending on the situation, done.

Anyway, just wanted to throw the Hi-Build out there, since it's our go-to product when doing NC.

To mention Hi-Build primer, I'm using same called thing from Miller on most of badly painted repaints with high porousness, new texture and such, sprays like rubber, but hardens like concrete, and it is less than 50 bux a bucket.

One more primer I'd use on new texture is Roseal from Rodda. Very good uniform film and grabability. Backroll it thick to seal the surface, spray the paint one coat on top of it, solid uniform look at any angle at any light position.

123 is used exclusively on patches and pretexture.

To mention Frog tape.. from everything I've tried, AllPro Titanium and PG5 tape is the best on fresh paints if pulled when paint is still wet, it falls off by itself. No tape had worked better, even on yesterday's paints. Usually spraying walls today, tape them off tomorrow with PG5, plastic on top of it, spray, it falls off like it is on oil.

 

I'm just getting around to checking on things here, so bear with me.

I am in full agreement that Gardz is great. But 2 coats of Gardz on a typical NC project costs more than the finish coats. As I mentioned above, SW Masterhide is the go to on NC here. I myself, being a minor rebel, prefer the PPG 6-2, but then we have to add an extra step of top coating ceilings.

Adding an extra coat of primer (and expensive primer, at that), won't be very budget friendly. Furthermore, if a primer is so great, why does it need two coats? The regular stuff seems to work fine 90+% of the time with one coat, so what is the point?

I don't use PVA, so I don't have any convictions about that one way or the other.

There is a time and place for everything. I try not to use a sledgehammer everywhere when a tack hammer will do. On a remodel, I tend towards the best products available: 1) the owners are paying out of pocket and 2) they probably are thinking of sticking around to enjoy it. (owner occupied homes).

NC is the wild west and demographics say that most homeowners will move in 5-7, custom homes notwithstanding.

 

I think people are confusing PVA with a primer and not as a sealer as it's intended to be. Once again, PVA is compatible with bare joint compound. It is designed to chemically bond with joint compound and drywall. Gardz is designed for messed up drywall. Claiming Gardz to be a replacement for a compatible sealer on bare joint compound, is hillbilly chemistry at best.

I mean sure, a banana cream pie would cover better than Glidden's PVA, but is it chemically compatible? We tend to overlook the functionality for the aesthetics. A bucket of clear nail polish would provide a hard impermeable surface over joint compound, but is it really compatible?

 

PVA vs Gardz



CApainter, have you ever rolled paint on new drywall that has been sealed with Gardz? If so, what sheens of paint have you used over Gardz?

futtyos

 

Very funny!

I would welcome a product like GARDZ to be the new industry standard for bare drywall and joint compound. But until that's official, and despite all the theories of its properties and performance, PVA will win the case at the end of every day in terms of legal disputes over coating specifications or lack there of.

 

Best primer of legally sufficient?



CApainter, I am still not sure what the OP had in mind as far as what is the best primer for new drywall other than he mentioned that he wanted to equalize the texture between the paper and the mud.

That being said, you seem to indicate that PVA is an industry standar and mention that it might be involved in legal disputes.

I would ask

A. Where is it written that PVA is an industry standard for new drywall, and

B. How would the use or non-use of PVA on new drywall be involved in any legal dispute other than not following through with the terms of a proposal that included or excluded the use of PVA on new drywall?

I am not trying to pin you against the wall here. I do very little NC or new drywall and so may not be familiar with writing up bids for large NC whre there is a lot of new drywall. Most of my work is repaints and helping people get their places ready for selling. I have not done any large jobs where I am bidding against a number of other contractors who all have to include certain standardized itmes in their bids ....... such as using PVA on new drywall.

You don't seem to be against using Gardz, you seem to lean towards PVA for possibly legal reasons. Can you elaborate on this and correct any of my false impressions of what you have posted?

futtyos

 

I find this thread interesting. I have never used a PVA primer. This is one of those many times in the past few years that I have felt stupid when compared to all of those that have been painting much longer than me, and had a better painting eduaction before going out on their own.
I Almost always use BM 046, or Zinsser 123 when priming drywall. After reading a thread some time back on PVA primer it seemed to me that the opinion was that is little more than a cheap primer to be used only when cost was a major issue. Had no idea that it is intended to bond with drywall and JC. I would like to try it...however
I searched both the Ben Moore and California websites and neither company seems to even make one. Theese are to two paint comapies to which I have easy access. Since neither of these comapnies seem to not make PVA and both make some of the best out there, I am wondering (or perhaps a better word is asking) are PVA primers a technology that is no longer necessary due to the quality of newer primers.

Edit...Cali does seem to make a PVA called Drywall Primer, but it is described as an "economical primer."

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I searched both the Ben Moore and California websites and neither company seems to even make one.

Easily accessible nearly everywhere HD, Lowes and such have whole bunch of it. He, who had being seeking will be reworded)

 

I noticed the same thing Pete. Glidden was one of only a few PVA sealers that I could find. You may be right in that PVA is obsolete given the resin advancements of other primers. But I don't know if there is a general consensus on that. I would hope it would no longer be specified if it s obsolete. I need a paint Zsar to tell me PVA sealer has gone the way of calcimine paint.

 

I was just in my Ben Moore paint store, and I asked two of the employees if BM made a PVA primer. Neither of them even knew what I was talking about. One of them is the son of the store's owners. Has been there a long time and knows his stuff....so perhaps PVA primer is somethimg past its prime and those who decide what is good practice have not realized it yet.

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Why switch brands on a home?

 

SW sells a PVA primer. Take that as you will.