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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I’m bidding on a job for a local pizza shop that’s been in the area for like 60 years. They want to update the whole place but part of that includes repainting the original ceiling in the kitchen area, which is highly detailed with big dentil crown and intricate carvings. Spraying it will be the only option if I want to get it done in any reasonable amount of time.
The owner said he will be degreasing the ceiling himself despite me highly encouraging hiring a company dedicated to this kind of thing. We’re talking decades of grease on a ceiling that’s 18 feet high with lots of heavy ovens in the room that won’t be able to be moved. We agreed to do a test area after he has cleaned it to make sure the primer will adhere before we bother doing the whole thing, but I’m curious if there’s any products that are designed to adhere to a surface that is less than ideal if he isn’t able to get it perfectly clean, or if there’s any additives that could be used.
Would Emulsabond work in this situation to help emulsify some of the oil into the coating?
Any advice I’d appreciated, I don’t want to take this job if it means I’ll shoot myself in the foot
-Nico
 

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Wow.
First, I would never rely on the customer to degrease an area like that to the extent that I would then want to prime and paint it. Testing it is fine, but can you test it thoroughly enough to feel all of it is adequately cleaned? There are bound to be areas that will still have greases on them that you just won’t see until your paint fails.

Personally, I would not take this one on. BUT, if I was intent on taking this job, I would have him sign off on not holding me responsible if a paint failure occurs. There are just too many issues here to be sure.

As for an additive, I know of nothing that will dissolve oil or grease into the paint, nor would you want to since it would be like trying to mix oil and, well, water. Removing the grease prior to priming is, IMO, the only way to secure a sound surface for your paint to adhere to. But, perhaps I am out of date on my product knowledge in this regard so I will see what others may have to say along those lines. I do suggest a good binding primer be used. Although even that won’t be worth squat if you are applying it over grease… which brings us back to the beginning of my post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I agree that it’s not a great idea for them to do it, that’s why I tried to persuade him to hire that part out. And I’m certainly not doing that, call me a premadonna but I’m not interested in having 50 years of French fry grease rain down on me lol
 

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Oil based primer for grease for sure. No waterbased product will ever work in that scenario, so don't even think about it. You'll probably need to do multiple coats of oil primer, at least two. In my experience the newer low VOC Coverstain actually sucks for grease and I still had fisheyes at some spots, and Kilz oil is better nowadays. I dealt with this recently redoing some rooms at my father's shop, with car grease stains all over, and silicone. Kilz oil was the only thing that worked. Perhaps BM or SW oil primers are better, but Coverstain sucks now. Spraying oil is obviously a pain and flammable, and he'd need to turn off gas/etc. Oil primer works by basically emulsifying oil/grease/smoke stains into itself, whereas using a water based primer even if it doesn't fisheye it won't have enough solvent action to emulsify stuff in the same way, so you eventually still run into adhesion issues.

Then two coats of latex top coat, probably satin or semi-gloss. You could even go the precat epoxy route for easier cleanability, as that's more what they're advertised for, commercial high abuse places.

For degreasing, again, even if he degreases it there's absolutely no way it's 100% off so you'll have to use oil regardless. As long as whatever he uses isn't wet and is fairly thoroughly rinsed I don't really see a problem in him DIYing that with the only exception being that he'll likely hate it and get frustrated halfway through and quit. I don't think there's much of a caveat to it beyond that, as again it's likely impossible to fully degrease a ceiling completely, but you can't paint on top of a thick layer of grease, but as long as it's not thick anymore then it's the job of the oil primer to just absorb the grease up. If you go crazy with fully degreasing to the point a latex paint will stick it's very likely whatever paint was under the grease will become unbonded, too, and that's a bigger mess to deal with.

Unlike others here, I don't think it's that risky, but you will need to charge a decent amount more for oil primer, and obviously all manner of bad things could happen, but I think getting 70-80% of the grease off and two fully dried coats of oil would minimize chances of failure.
 

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Residual cleaning agents left behind even after he removed all the grease would be enough to cause your primer to fail, and you'll have absolutely no way to tell if it's there or not before you begin to prime. I wouldn't ever consider taking on a job where the customer insists on doing the cleaning or prep themselves. You're the pro. That's like me convincing a skydiver to let me pack our parachute before going tandem so I can save a few bucks.
 

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Residual cleaning agents left behind even after he removed all the grease would be enough to cause your primer to fail, and you'll have absolutely no way to tell if it's there or not before you begin to prime. I wouldn't ever consider taking on a job where the customer insists on doing the cleaning or prep themselves. You're the pro. That's like me convincing a skydiver to let me pack our parachute before going tandem so I can save a few bucks.
It would need to be cleaned thoroughly at least twice but I'd use the Krud Kutter Gloss Off as the final wash. It doesn't have to be rinsed off and doesn't leave anything on the surface even when using a waterborne finish. I'm a fan of that product especially on woodwork.
 

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It would need to be cleaned thoroughly at least twice but I'd use the Krud Kutter Gloss Off as the final wash. It doesn't have to be rinsed off and doesn't leave anything on the surface even when using a waterborne finish. I'm a fan of that product especially on woodwork.
I'm a fan of krud kutter also.

I have only used the Original krud kutter (in the spray bottle), but tech support recommended to rinse with a damp rag after cleaning. We are cleaning cabinet doors to prep for priming and painting, and have been trying it out.

Are you saying that "Gloss Off" may be able to replace this product as a cleaner/de-greaser, and does not require rinsing? Or, are you cleaning it with something else, and then cleaning with Gloss Off?

As an aside - Tech Support also recommended White Vinegar and water as a cleaner/degreaser, which we have used in the past, and I may just go back to that.

It would be great to find a "one-stop" product, but worry there might still be the risk of residual grease that was just swirled around on the surface...
 

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Monarchski
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I'm a fan of krud kutter also.

I have only used the Original krud kutter (in the spray bottle), but tech support recommended to rinse with a damp rag after cleaning. We are cleaning cabinet doors to prep for priming and painting, and have been trying it out.

Are you saying that "Gloss Off" may be able to replace this product as a cleaner/de-greaser, and does not require rinsing? Or, are you cleaning it with something else, and then cleaning with Gloss Off?

As an aside - Tech Support also recommended White Vinegar and water as a cleaner/degreaser, which we have used in the past, and I may just go back to that.

It would be great to find a "one-stop" product, but worry there might still be the risk of residual grease that was just swirled around on the surface...
I'm currently only using the Gloss Off as an all in one cleaner, degreaser, liquid sander (after sanding of course) and not rinsing. I'm not getting reactions when using waterborne products over the top like you do with some. Now I wouldn't only use that on the job mentioned above due to how extreme it is but would use it as my final clean.
 

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So, I’m bidding on a job for a local pizza shop that’s been in the area for like 60 years. They want to update the whole place but part of that includes repainting the original ceiling in the kitchen area, which is highly detailed with big dentil crown and intricate carvings. Spraying it will be the only option if I want to get it done in any reasonable amount of time.
The owner said he will be degreasing the ceiling himself despite me highly encouraging hiring a company dedicated to this kind of thing. We’re talking decades of grease on a ceiling that’s 18 feet high with lots of heavy ovens in the room that won’t be able to be moved. We agreed to do a test area after he has cleaned it to make sure the primer will adhere before we bother doing the whole thing, but I’m curious if there’s any products that are designed to adhere to a surface that is less than ideal if he isn’t able to get it perfectly clean, or if there’s any additives that could be used.
Would Emulsabond work in this situation to help emulsify some of the oil into the coating?
Any advice I’d appreciated, I don’t want to take this job if it means I’ll shoot myself in the foot
-Nico
Clean, sand, prime. Only way.
 

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Krud Kutter good stuff, way better for that greasy ceiling is "Oil Eater" it comes in fives' and single gallons. Us hand pump weed sprayer saturate and scrub with scotch brand scrubbing pads, you will need many of them. After first pass if not clean to the original surface do it again. Use a high build latex primer will work just fine, as long as surface is very dry. There is not a paint that will adhere to any oily surface even if it claims it can. Second alternative is hang new sheet rock.
 
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