[jennifertemple]

PVA primer, drywall primer, Acrylic primer & raw wallboard. I am curious to know what level of priming of raw drywall the painters here find acceptable. Do you think a PVA paint is good enough, would you a apply a finish coat over PVA or PVA drywall primer or would you use a quality primer over the sealing coat? What are your tried and true methods? I have never trusted a PVA sealer without a proper, strong primer. Every time I have been asked to paint "sealed" drywall, I have always started with a good, acrylic, primer. Am I alone in this?

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

Starting with a good primer is like night and day compared to rolling over what most companies sell as 'PVA'.

 

[Smilingpolitely]

Like most things, it depends on the cicumstances.

I've been on a Cover Stain kick for a while now. Most likely over-kill, but I would sooner do too much than not enough. This is on my own jobs and after discussion with the HO. The biggest downfall, IMO, is drytime.

If I am doing a job for a GC or a DIY'er, I can usually persuade them to at least use SW PVA. I still do two coats over it, even if tinted.

One guy I occasionally work with doesn't prime at all because he uses uses flat. Not my preference, but any failure falls on him.

When I do a job with him I usually bring the ceiling paint down at least 2" on the walls to make the cut easier. 1/2" nap on first coat. Stick sand. 3/8" for second coat.

Personally, I have found that knowing tricks around things comes in handy when on rentals or prepping for sale.

 

[finishesbykevyn]

Depends what top coat you're using and how much space your talking. There's a big price difference between a gal. of Aqualock and a gal. of cheap pva. I'm somewhere in the the middle of using bm ultra spec.

 

[jennifertemple]

Depends what top coat you're using and how much space your talking. There's a big price difference between a gal. of Aqualock and a gal. of cheap pva. I'm somewhere in the the middle of using bm ultra spec.

AND, very important, How much is the contract paying!?

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

AND, very important, How much is the contract paying!?

I think you would find at the end of the day even with the additional cost per gallon of something like ultraspec primer you would find your overall costs decrease due to applying less material as the primer has a better spread rate and seals better so you end up applying less top coat as well. Less labor and less product is your profit margin

 

[jennifertemple]

I think you would find at the end of the day even with the additional cost per gallon of something like ultraspec primer you would find your overall costs decrease due to applying less material as the primer has a better spread rate and seals better so you end up applying less top coat as well. Less labor and less product is your profit margin

I've never done it any other way. I ALWAYS use good quality primer and rejected clients that did not want to use my suggested methods. There were always other jobs and as we all know, the quality of the prep is 9/10s the quality of the finished product and will be a trouble free application. That was true from the very first time I went out on my own. I learned from a master and took that learning with me.

Aqua Lock has such a dense build up that a really good sanding is possible prior to the finishing coats. It was always my favorite primer and though not sold as a bonding primer, that stuff would prime glass! I blessed the day I found it and started using it. (About my 2nd year in business.)

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

I've never done it any other way. I ALWAYS use good quality primer and rejected clients that did not want to use my suggested methods. There were always other jobs and as we all know, the quality of the prep is 9/10s the quality of the finished product and will be a trouble free application. That was true from the very first time I went out on my own. I learned from a master and took that learning with me.

Aqua Lock has such a dense build up that a really good sanding is possible prior to the finishing coats. It was always my favorite primer and though not sold as a bonding primer, that stuff would prime glass! I blessed the day I found it and started using it. (About my 2nd year in business.)

Not only that but a test you can do to prove your self is prime half a wall with PVA and the other half with aqualock. your top coat will absolutely flash due to aqualock sealing the drywall better. Ask me how I know

 

[jennifertemple]

Not only that but a test you can do to prove your self is prime half a wall with PVA and the other half with aqualock. your top coat will absolutely flash due to aqualock sealing the drywall better. Ask me how I know

Let me guess; you did this test already.

 

[jennifertemple]

@cocomonkeynuts Sadly, there are quite a few painters on the various painters forums that are deeply committed to PVA as both primer and paint, worse PVA paint as primer. Not me! I won't ever go down that road! I do think some of those painters are directly responsible for many of my headaches, over time. It can get really ugly when the time comes for a repaint. Worst of the worst are the 'blow and go' jobs done to houses going onto the market. The HO doesn't care, they are leaving the problem behind, the realtors love it; it looks clean. Then a new HO calls for a repaint and we are the bearers of bad tidings!

 

[Smilingpolitely]

@cocomonkeynuts Sadly, there are quite a few painters on the various painters forums that are deeply committed to PVA as both primer and paint, worse PVA paint as primer. Not me! I won't ever go down that road! I do think some of those painters are directly responsible for many of my headaches, over time. It can get really ugly when the time comes for a repaint. Worst of the worst are the 'blow and go' jobs done to houses going onto the market. The HO dosn't care, they are leaving the problem behind, the realtors love it; it looks clean. Then a new HO calls for a repaint and we are the bearers of bad tidings!

OK, I gotta ask what the problem is with using PVA as a primer on drywall?

I am always open to learning

 

[jennifertemple]

OK, I gotta ask what the problem is with using PVA as a primer on drywall?
I am always open to learning

First, we are talking about raw wall board. This is the very first primer a wall will get. IMHO, it needs to be as sound as we can possibly make it! The problem (IMHO) is basically PVA tends to be cheap sh*t! Some swear using a PVA paint as primer is just fine but PVA primer is no better. Others will say that using a superior quality primer will cause you more problems. Well, 46 years as a pro painter and my personal take is those PVA advocates were, I am sure, responsible for many of my past headaches; all of the repaint issues I have had over time are directly related to paint applied without primer. Here is what some other painters had to say on the subject: PVA primer, drywall primer, Acrylic primer & raw... AND No Primer Required, Just Paint it!!!
Feel free to make of it what you will. I am an advocate of high quality acrylics both in primer and in paint. They have never let me down and many of my clients were with me for 20-25 years. As I was coming into retirement, I was taking on the children of my longer term clients who got married and moved into their own houses. That would not have been the case had I gone cheap out on materials! Clearly, there are strong advocates for both arguments. I played no favorites with those links. @cocomonkeynuts nailed it with his proposed test! If you do run such a test, I would take it a step further and let the finish dry well and put some strips of masking tape across it, leave the tape an hour and then pull it up. See if it does not do what your stair tape did. (A good chunk of wall board will do, don't test a whole wall!)

 

[Knobbe]

Nobody mentioned Gardz on new drywall?
Just finished a Gardz, Aqualock, Regal job. Looked awesome even though there were many windows

 

[jennifertemple]

Nobody mentioned Gardz on new drywall?
Just finished a Gardz, Aqua lock, Regal job. Looked awesome even though there were many windows

Gardz, Aqua lock, in IMHO, that is an absolutely perfect prime! I had talked about Gardz for priming on another thread! The Aqua Lock is a great second coat because it will sand more nicely than the Gardz alone. Good for you! I'd hire you any day!!!

 

[Woodco]

You do NOT want to spray an entire house with Gardz, trust me....

Also.. What is 'PVA paint.'

 

[Woodco]

I think you would find at the end of the day even with the additional cost per gallon of something like ultraspec primer you would find your overall costs decrease due to applying less material as the primer has a better spread rate and seals better so you end up applying less top coat as well. Less labor and less product is your profit margin

Not necessarily.

When I did tract homes, our method was to spray Kelly Moore 550 flat on raw texture, ONE coat, NO backroll, on the whole house. Then, any wet areas would get one coat of SG sprayed on top of that. Thats far cheaper and far less labor intensive than using a dedicated primer and spraying the topcoat on top of that. Oh, and it works better too. Regular masking tape will NOT pull this paint off the wall, but most cheaper primers would pull off the wall with tape. Long story short: using flat paint is often cheaper and better.

Even if the walls were to get an eggshell as topcoat, all the ceilings and closets are done, saving hours of labor.

I might add that this is on textured walls though.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

Not necessarily.

When I did tract homes, our method was to spray Kelly Moore 550 flat on raw texture, ONE coat, NO backroll, on the whole house. Then, any wet areas would get one coat of SG sprayed on top of that. Thats far cheaper and far less labor intensive than using a dedicated primer and spraying the topcoat on top of that. Oh, and it works better too. Regular masking tape will NOT pull this paint off the wall, but most cheaper primers would pull off the wall with tape. Long story short: using flat paint is often cheaper and better.

Even if the walls were to get an eggshell as topcoat, all the ceilings and closets are done, saving hours of labor.

I might add that this is on textured walls though.

Spray new construction no back roll I would consider it, I don't plan to ever do that sort of work though

 

[jennifertemple]

Spray new construction no back roll I would consider it, I don't plan to ever do that sort of work though

I never worked new housing developments. My understanding of those kinds of contracts is that quality has nothing to do with it. It's all about being fast and cheap. No thanks! As for how well those jobs hold up, who goes back to do the repaints? The original painters?

 

[Woodco]

I never worked new housing developments. My understanding of those kinds of contracts is that quality has nothing to do with it. It's all about being fast and cheap. No thanks! As for how well those jobs hold up, who goes back to do the repaints? The original painters?

Thats the point! If a one flat paint spray coat, no backroll blow and go job, will pass adhesion tests better than a primed job with two topcoats all backrolled, then obviously using the flat paint is better than using the primer, hands down.


BTW, they absolutely hold up IF YOU USE GOOD PAINT, (which most companies dont, but we did) . When we did custom homes for the same company, we used the same technique, but we'd roll two coats of eggshell on the walls afterwards. We'd also use that flat paint on the trim for a primer, and it worked good too. Honestly, the walls didnt look great, because it was one coat not backrolled, but they looked a lot better than if there was one coat of primer sprayed. The walls did touch up great, and the paint passed adhesion tests, and did not fail.

The flat paint worked better using a drywall primer, and it definitely saved time, which is money. That system can easily be turned into a quality paint job simply by backrolling everything.

 

[celicaxx]

Thats the point! If a one flat paint spray coat, no backroll blow and go job, will pass adhesion tests better than a primed job with two topcoats all backrolled, then obviously using the flat paint is better than using the primer, hands down.


BTW, they absolutely hold up IF YOU USE GOOD PAINT, (which most companies dont, but we did) . When we did custom homes for the same company, we used the same technique, but we'd roll two coats of eggshell on the walls afterwards. We'd also use that flat paint on the trim for a primer, and it worked good too. Honestly, the walls didnt look great, because it was one coat not backrolled, but they looked a lot better than if there was one coat of primer sprayed. The walls did touch up great, and the paint passed adhesion tests, and did not fail.

The flat paint worked better using a drywall primer, and it definitely saved time, which is money. That system can easily be turned into a quality paint job simply by backrolling everything.

On my one big new construction job, I used SW Masterhide as primer and it passed adhesion tests well with tape. I thought it was a convenient system, ceiling paint and then roll the walls from the same big 5 gallon 18" roller bucket, then top coat.

All my other jobs after that though were just a couple sheets or skimcoating, and for those I usually just used a "general purpose" primer of some sort, like Bullseye, Fresh Start 046, etc.